Tour pros and cheque cashers.
by chip n'putt on Apr 16, 2011 10:11 AM EDT
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PrintTo get to the top of the top, no matter the endeavour requires a talent, a passion and a ruthlessness that transcends all others. So why is it that we assume that golf pros who reach the pinnacle of their career and life held dreams, suddenly will settle for second best ?
To get to that pinnacle, means that you have come through the amateur ranks, then the Pro Tour grounding of Tour School, Nationwide or the equivalent. You get to the Tour and you suddenly settle for making cuts? To imagine that it is that easy is misguided at best. There are 125 guys out there with you and another 200 on the fringe that would cheerfully give their left something or other, to take your place and they are just as talented as you. If it was that easy to just make the cut, play for a top ten or twenty and nothing more, then the player involved has more talent than Woods or any other player you could care to name. Given that talent, why not win instead?
The answer is that it ain’t that easy. For the fringe player, keeping your card is a weekly, never ending battle that turns on the head of a pin. The difference between making cuts and winning over the course of a year is small, make that tiny. There are no cheque cashers out there. There are guys and gals, who can’t quite figure out how to get it done under the hammer, but trust me, they are trying their hearts out. If they are not, then they are out of business and quickly.
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WOW SWEET THANG !
You does write with passion and fire…That’s my girl….and of course, you know where of you write…Absolutely true….But, let’s back up a tiny bit…You said Mr. Hogan was a prick…not so…he did more for many that was off the record than most people know…And, how can you possibly say Mr. Bolt had a temper….The man was the most gracious, even spoken person I ever met…I will tell you how considerate he was…He only threw his clubs back towards the clubhouse…that way when he walked in, he could pick them back up…True…I knew him well….One time we were playing, and the second shot was over water to a small green…One guy hit and made the green….lots of clapping…Bolt feathered a 4 wood up against the wind, that dropped about 6 ft from the pin…no applause…Boldt stood there in his alligater shoes, and cashmere sweater, looked at his caddy and told him to get the ball, he was going in…that the people were too stupid not to appreciate good golf…Yup..got fined the usual 100.00 in those days…One of the best mid Iron players I ever knew….I’ll keep the light on for ya….yur cuddly, warm Bugger…..STUB
STUB
Morning Stubb
The same could be said of a lot of players as Hogan. As far as his public persona was concerned and also to most who played with him, he was a prick. He did a lot for golf off the course, as does another who shall remain nameless. The point I made, remains the same.
Tommy Bolt is a legend and why? Sure he could play, but there were plenty of others who were just as good. Why do we remember him? Because of his temper. Nowadays, players are reviled for the same behavior. You have to be dead a year or two before you become a good guy. Now that is a bit of a bugger.
And Stubb
Bolt always said to throw your clubs forward. That way you didn’t have to walk back to get ‘em. There’s a lot to be said for that.
by chip n'putt on Apr 16, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Well sweetness, I ain't daid, an I is a gud guy...
jis axe any of my bidness partners…Wendy will vouch for me too….after all, I gots lots a money on that gal….Scrums and me is elevating her to National Prom-a-nence in the gambling circuit over in the UK…Scrums will keep the books, and he said she is a shoo in to win in August….Jist askin mind ya…but did you ever throw yur clubs?….STUB
STUB
Only forward
and only sideways. The shafts don’t break that way.
Go Wendy! Sorry Easy……
by chip n'putt on Apr 16, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Chip - Easing & I are going to write up
the story of our epic battle of Wickham Park. The drama, the tears, the clutch putts, the oohs, the aahs, the steely determination we showed were unbelievable. Oh wait – we haven’t played yet . It’s actually all about the beer and bacon butties – who’s paying ;o)
Well, you can be a bit snarky on occasion
Mistaking me for my grandmother has been forgiven but not FORGOTTEN for example.
Otherwise you’re not such a bad old bugger.
I know what it was, and I realaize the error of my ways...
it was the sun glinting off the blonde hair, made it look silver….bad ol me…..Can I still use the lounger?….GO LIL WENDY…..STUB
STUB
I totally agree with you, Chip
Let me give ONE example of a golfer you all know I follow. Stewart Cink is a multi-millionaire. He is playing this week in Texas. Why? It’s not for the money. He was furious at himself for missing the cut at The Masters and desperately wants to get a win under his belt. His ranking (whilst it surely wrankles) is not an issue as far as getting into tournaments of his choice is concerned. He wants to get more wins and if that happens to start with a lower-ranked tournament, so be it. I think that goes for the vast majority of pro golfers.
......and it was mentioned on the
telecast that he has “re-committed” himself to his game. He is working hard and practicing more to get back to where was a few years ago. I like Stewy and I hope he gets it going.
The Saints were the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS for a year...hope I don't have to wait another 44 years for #2....WHO DAT!......:)
The game has changed a lot these days
Golfers still have to stay on tour. The top 125 is all, the scramble to stay in is very tough. Many of these players play 30 plus events to stay in. There are 2 PGA tours…when the big boys play and the rest, like the Houston or the Hope. But golfers know now the OWGR means more. Anyone in the top 64 wins enough money, but to get in the majors and WGC events gets more points and keeps them in the top echelon of the sport. Stuart Cink has to play the Houston and do well, even though there are less points available in this event, he has slipped to 62 in the rankings and will miss WGC events unless he climbs back up. He still has major excemptions, but they will run out in 3 years.
Nick faldo once said the tour is full of wonderful ball strikers, but it takes guts to reach the top. Els and other greats have this in spades, I was just suggesting Els and Mickleson have the talent of anyone, but with a fraction less guts than say, the very best of all time.
Chip, Wendy...I lov bof a ya dearly, but I want to give you some thing
to chew on a bit here….I don’t think any of us are talking about the A list or B list players…You can go to your Fantasy lists to see the C and D players…I’m only going to address the US players because I don’t know all of the foreign guys..
Here goes….In the USA, only 1% of the working population and I’m including Pro Golfers here, make 250,000.00 or more per year…The average mean figure is 46K and change….You don’t have to be Aor B list to make that 250K….We have become blind if you will to medocrity, and accept it….WHY ?….We’ve talke about this before….If we won’t accept half way is good enough from trades people we hire, why in the world accept it from someone who is supposed to do their best while entertaining us?
This is like an ep-a-dem-ik…and it’s getting worse….Why do you really think the Nationwide Tour came into being….so that those not good enough for the big show had a place to make a living…Same goes for the Duramed Futures tour….It’s a training ground for the comers and a place for the hangers on..We have even had a couple of posters on WR from there…How much have we heard lately ?…I think the last one is back waiting on table somewhere…Tough?…but realistic..
There are numerous small rinky dink tours all over this country…The state of Iowa, has about 7-8 events, where if a person was to win all them, could make over 60K…and that’s just small potatoes….These people have it all worked out….“i’m not good enough to win, but I really don’t have to work for a living (see Easy and factory here) I can walk the fairways and get sponsors and live the good life”….Go to all the College programs…where are all these kids that got a free ride and Education?…
I look back over the years, and realize that progress is not always the best….I go right back, and yes, I guess I sound like a broken record,, but QUALIFYING…This is the only true way of getting top players in ANY event…just my HO….STUB
STUB
I'll come back to you on the rest of your post
but our Fantasy League only has ABC lists – Adam Scott and JB Holmes are C list. I have no idea how these lists are made up – they make little sense when you see them.
My mistake for not making it clearer...A John Daly
is D list in my opinion…and there are others…..STUB
STUB
I hear you about QUALIFYING, STUB
but you’re talking about ability and continuing success. Top 125 in the WORLD sounds pretty good to me. The way you put it unless you make executive level in a company you should shoot yourself for being “mediocre”. I thought Chip was making the point (& I wholeheartedly agree with her) that the people playing on the pro tours are playing their hearts out trying to win, not just there to make up the numbers.
I get your point, but if we're talking about a 125 number, let them
prove it week in and week out and not just hand it to them…As far as Executive level…not at all…most people look in the mirror and realize their talent and potential and work for that…I’m not saying they don’t play their hearts out….but, playing ones heart out to WIN or just survive are 2 katz of different colors….That’s where I grade the ABCD list players..
The GC is putting on a program of some bum living in a tube and wants to play on the Champions tour….Golf is all he has ever done, and I don’t know with how much success…His wife threw him out (a la Chip) and now he’s really on the skids….He couldn’t break 80 in qualifying….he has about as much chance of playing on the tour, as a fart in the wind will make it change direction….All I’m saying, we would be better served by making more open qualifying…I don’t have the exact answer, that’s why it’s MHO….Oh, and isn’t this the basic premise of Easys world tour ?…STUB
STUB
They do prove it every week Stubb
As Wendy said, those 125 are not static. You need to be inside the top 50 on the OWGR to get a start in the Masters to use one example. Just because you are inside that top 125, does not make you automatic for a start in the bigger events either. They re-rank the 125 continuously throughout the year and that impacts on where you can play.
If you miss four cuts in a row, then you have gone a month without being paid. You have still paid the caddy, the airfares and the hotel bills though, not to mention the grocery bills back home. To top it off, your ranking has dropped, so that you will miss the biggies and now you’re staring at Q School.
You got there because you are one of the very best in the game and you sure as hell won’t give up without a fight because your survival and that of your family, does depend on it.
I remain amazed how much "real golf fans" seem to dislike non-elite golf professionals
If John Senden can make over $47K for coming in 24th in Houston, who does it hurt? As if the reason he came in 24th is because he half-assed it. He probably busted his rear end to get there.
The guys who regularly reside in the 100-150 money list range are some of the best golfers in the world. That is how cutthroat live is on tour. Those skills should carry a hefty price tag. Or at least what the market is willing to bear.
Who dislikes non elites ?
They might not be well known, but every player has a story. The weeks the top 50 stay away can be entertaining and very important for those players 50 – 125. But everyone knows a good chunk of golf fans give them a miss that week. Of course they are fighting for survival. The issue was that some have so much talent they make a good living without winning and some of these, albeit a small amount of players, are content with that. That is simply human nature. No one here can say 100% of golf pros on that money list fight 100% every week. Woods does, but he is exceptional. Huge purses today make it easier to accept an off week. 125 on that money list finished with 700,000 dollars for the year and the top 100 on that list had over a million, for the fortunate ones who stay in that 100, rich pickings are there for all to see.
Just an aside to your money comment Easy
That money is not what they take home. Tax, caddy and expenses mean that they lose at least half of that. It’s still a good living – more than good, but proportionately, how do they stack up against the elite of any other field – not just golf?
Another thing. Golf is one of the very few professional sports that I can think of, where there is no guarantee of a pay cheque. Footballers get paid no matter how they perform, as do basket ballers. Tennis first round losers get a cheque. With golf, you miss a cut on any Tour, you go home empty handed, minus what it cost you to play and that is plenty.
The issue was that some have so much talent they make a good living without winning and some of these, albeit a small amount of players, are content with that.
Who are these golfers? Name names please.
Huge purses today make it easier to accept an off week.
This seems to be a major bone of contention for people. What reaction are you looking for when a golfer doesn’t make the cut or posts a mediocre finish? Must the fairways be filled with McIlroy at the Masters-like reactions to every poor shot? Should clubs be flung in anger every time an approach shot is poor to show the masses they really care (except for Tiger, of course)?
125 on that money list finished with 700,000 dollars for the year and the top 100 on that list had over a million, for the fortunate ones who stay in that 100, rich pickings are there for all to see.
And they have earned those ‘rich pickings’ by playing well in competition with other extremely talented and motivated golfers.
One more thing about the ‘rich pickings’. Because nothing is guaranteed in golf (David Duval, Ian Baker-Finch), why would you begrudge the amount of $ while the play is good. The cash spigot may be huge for the players in the top 100, but there is no guarantee that spigot will be open year after year.
First of all two
Any person knows if they earn momney, they pay tax. Did you honestly think I thought they keep all their winnings ?
I’ll give you names. Scot Hoch. Mark James is another. They both admitted they played for money. Thery didn’t love winning, except it meant more money. Those types of players would settle for less. The greats want to win. They know money takes care of itself. In any walk of life, you will hear " that’ll do me" from most people.
Don’t think for one minute I begrudge anyone what they get. I don’t. I’m simply saying a comfort zone exists for some pros because they know if they have a half decent season, they will get paid enough for their needs.
Of course they play for money
It’s their livelihood. For some it is a way to earn a living. but for most it’s more. It doesn’t make them any less, just differently motivated. My point has always been, that there is no one out there who will settle for making cuts and finishing mid field when they could do more – whatever their motivation. Furthermore, there is no one out there good enough to just dial it in.
by chip n'putt on Apr 17, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m simply saying a comfort zone exists for some pros because they know if they have a half decent season, they will get paid enough for their needs.
And what is wrong with that? If the goal is for golf fans to be entertained by great golf, and people like Hoch and M. James are motivated by money instead of an urge to succeed athletically, where does the problem lie?
Nothing is wrong with that.
I’m simply saying some players are more content than others. Would you agree ?
Yes, i would agree
Boo Weekley, for example, seems content with his successes through ’08. I think he has mentioned he would quit after 5 to 10 years.
The point I am debating is there shouldn’t be a exterior mechanism to weed those content golfers out; the competitive nature of tour golf will do that,
I agree with that.
And Boo is a good example of what I meant. And there is no exterior machanism except our opinons
Everything in life is a trade off
We make trade offs all of the time and don’t even realize it. And we all different; what some people are willing to trade, others are not. What drives someone to take their career all the way to CEO, where some are perfectly happy with middle management or lower? For every path we take there’s another path we can’t take. Now granted not everyone has the talent to reach the pinnacle of their profession and that’s just the way it is. But there are many who have the talent but are simply not willing to give up what it takes, the time, the hard work, the longer hours away from family, etc. They’d like to be there, but are simply not willing to accept the trade offs.
The man who never alters his opinions is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind.
~ William Blake
TH...you've said what I wasn't el-a-quint enough
to get accross….I don’t degrade any of them…..I just want the most competitive TV watching or actual toon-a-ment walking golf I can get….STUB
STUB
You are getting that now
To liberally steal from Maximus; are you not entertained by the quality and the competitiveness of professional golf week after week?
While I could be convinced local qualifying should be expanded and exemptions curtailed, I truly believe the relative high financial remuneration for also rans is the carrot that helps drive current and potential pros to hone their games to the level we get to see on our televisions each week on either side of the Atlantic (or Pacific this week).
If the game was confined to the States
qualifying would be an option. But players jet in from all over the world to play an event, wouldn’t come if they might fail to qualify. Majors, they would, of course, but not regular tour events.
That is still a factor on the US PGA Tour
People would be coming from all over the US (okay, from Florida, Arizona and Texas) to qualify in San Antonio this week under the qualification tournament plan.
What I think gets lost is that professional golf is as much a business and a athletic competition. And the business part demands the best and most popular players play regularly every week; hence the exemptions for guys high on the money list and past champions. It does take away from the pureness of the athletic completion, but everyone one knows the rules coming out. If you play well, you get more perks.
And that can’t be stressed enough. The golfers who are supposedly gobbling up all this money for mediocre performance are actually gobbling up all this money for exemplary performance, both in the past to put them in the top 100 and in the present to make a cut in a professional tournament when roughly half of the field is politely asked to leave halfway through the proceedings.
The best players that just play 20 events a year
suggests that the season is far too long. Trim it down to the best events within a world tour and you will get the best playing every time they tee it up. It just won’t be on one tour.
Without a good reason
Injuries and the like. Tiger plays 17 or more and then plays at least another three or four outside of the US. He is the exception though.
by chip n'putt on Apr 17, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The top players Chip
on the PGA tour. Same on the European tour. The other 5 to 8 events is on the “other” tour, ie, majors and WGC events.
I would argue that the season is as long as the market dictates. Just speaking for the US, the television networks are happy that there is a tournament every week of high level golf to show and allow them to sell ED pills, luxury cars and financial management services. Yes, when the elite play the ratings go up, but I’d wager CBS and NBC are both at the very least breaking even off the arrangement (which doesn’t always happen when television deals with sports).
And that is okay
As long and people are willing to go see and companies are willing to sponsor the tournaments, so be it.
Okay guys i'll bite
Things change from the time a pro starts to the time he makes it. For some they lose their hunger, when well, they lose their hunger. Motivation is the overriding issue. If you are motivated to be the best, then you will work, sacrifice, and live to that end. Not many are actually true to this mantra. Most will start on this course only to be distracted by the many distractions of life. Some begin with the goal of riches, and fame. Once they get these things, then where can they go? All that’s left is maintaining this position. This is a losing proposition. For the idealistic, who believe professionals act as such, they miss the point. Some touring pros maximize themselves every time out. While for others they settle for middling (for them) performances, until they decide to work for a (short term) goal. In reality, these guys and gals are human, and can be distracted by many outside, and inside things. To be a professional golfer takes talent, dedication and will. To be the best takes talent, dedication, and passionate desire. Some compete for the competition, while some compete for riches fame, and glory. If second place, and a large cheque satisfy, then that’s okay. If second place is the first loser, then that’s a totally different thing. We’ll agree that these guys are good, but who dares to be great. There is a wide chasm between the two. If professional means being paid, then that’s okay. But, if professional means being totally dedicated to one’s craft, then that’s a totally different matter.
"The game is swell when it's played well."
by Fairways and Grins on Apr 17, 2011 9:03 PM EDT reply actions
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