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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Firing Shots on Stack & Tilt, Andy Plummer, and Mike Bennett

The TV commercial advertising the Stack & Tilt swing method ends with Dean Wilson - holder of one career PGA Tour win - saying, "You've gotta try this golf swing." Really now? Do I? 

Well, Stack and Tilt has more or less disappeared from the PGA Tour landscape - barring a special week in the opposite-field Turning Stone event - compared to its pinnacle. In just a few short years, the swing method taught by Andy Plummer & Mike Bennett has gone the way of the dinosaur. The technique, which emphasizes concise movement and focusing weight on the front leg, has lost its zeal in most golf circles. Once having a roster of players like Mike Weir and (then promising) Aaron Baddeley, Plummer and Bennett have lost their traction on Tour driving ranges.

Just a few weeks ago, NY Times golf writer Bill Pennington did a piece on Stack & Tilt. His piece was good and even-minded. It was likely orchestrated by the Stack & Tilt PR team as Plummer and Bennett are miffed that newly anointed swing guru Sean Foley preaches some tenets of their method.

In fact, I received a press release from the Stack and Tilt team telling me that Tiger Woods was working with a guy that was teaching their method. The case they were attempting to make is their mojo is being plagiarized by the Canadian flavor of the week. (For his part, Sean Foley has taken shots at pretty much anyone he can. That, too, is behavior I don't appreciate or respect.) The pitch also directed me to the method's website - and what legitimate golf swing has its own site? - telling me about the world rankings of current and former members of their stable before, during and - in many cases - after their stints with Stack & Tilt.

It was an ignorant pitch at best. Plummer & Bennett threw their former players under the bus by using the Official World Golf Ranking. Charted smack talk about Mike Weir is ill-advised, particularly as Weir has been hampered by injuries, but that's no matter for two guys who are desperate to hang onto whatever traction their method has gained in a half dozen years.

The two teachers are denigrated for teaching an unconventional system rather than individual swings. Whether the method works or not is an argument above my pay grade, but the war of words coming from the Stack & Title camp - sometimes in response to fair criticisms - is not.

Plummer and Bennett complain that Foley - among other teachers - rip off portions of their method. Again, their argument doesn't hold water. Stack & Tilt may be a system, but it is a series of swing thoughts and components. Many of them have been taught for decades. That's no matter for guys who are convinced the golf world is out to get them.

Few high-profile disciples of the method still exist. The only one of recent relevance is Charlie Wi as he is playing well in Chicago at the Western Open BMW Championship. Following Friday's round, Wi spent several minutes talking about Stack & Tilt and talking trash about former cult members and Sean Foley.

"All the players know and all the caddies know who all the best teachers are out here. They're really quiet. They don't go around looking for press or anything. But I think that because it is different, other teachers have a tendency to bash them. Maybe they might be one generation ahead of them, but in the end they're not teaching something that is new," Wi said.

He added: "I'm not going to say the person's name, whoever Tiger is working with, you know, he's got Andy and Mike's DVD, his book, and he always calls them asking questions."

It's that kind of shot across the bow, emblematic of the brash arrogance of Plummer and Bennett, that continues to turn people off to the method. If they're not careful, Stack & Tilt will only be talking about in reference to a dump truck disposing of boxes filled with DVDs, books, and magazine clippings.

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Ryan....have you tried it ?

There’s an old saying, it used to apply or so my mother told me to eating different foods…It goes “don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it” . In truth, I don’t think IMHO that there is anything ANDYBODY can teach about the golf swing etc. that hasn’t been done or tried ad finitum….That said….I DID TRY THE STACK AND TILT….Let me say this….I found it to be the easiest way of initiating the back swing I have ever experienced….As my go to shot is a slight draw, this helped with a small drop in swing plane, but a very full shoulder turn. Something that at my age was starting to decline…I can’t say for sure that my yardages increased, but I started to enjoy hitting the ball to where I wanted it to go more than I had been.. NO, I do not subscribe to all that these two guys teach….I have never been one to be a method player…always a feel player… My forward swing is a bit off from their method, even if my weight does stay over my front leg…I want to hold the shoulders back a bit as the swing transitions forward, so my arms can drop into the slot…This seems to square me more to my swing line and lets the arms swing down and through…Hogan himself had parts of the stack and tilt, as did most of the older players…Heck, even Jack started his swing with replanting his heel and thrusting his strong legs forward….I think all the so called swing Gurus are a bunch of Hooey…but again that’s my take…If you don’t know your swing when you reach the big show…you better get a day job son…..STUB

by thinker on Sep 12, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

You completely missed the point. The merits of the swing aren’t my debate. It’s how Plummer and Bennett have handled themselves.

Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.

by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 12, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry Ryan...I didn't miss any point

YOUR HEADLINE READS “Firing shots on Stack & Tilt than a comma…Andy Plummer than another comma and Mike Bennett” As I have no axe to grind with either of the two guys, I elected to comment on the Stack and Tilt….The way your headline was written, allowed me to do that….jist sayin…STUB

by thinker on Sep 13, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will say your comment made me go back and make it explicitly clear that I don’t want this to be a referendum on Stack and Tilt as a method – though I don’t particularly think much of it. This is more about how Plummer and Bennett act in public. So, thanks for raising the point.

Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.

by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 13, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

DVD's, hah!

Stack & Tilt should’ve gone straight to shame and guilt.

by TXQ on Sep 12, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

lmao

"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky

by dianemarie on Sep 13, 2010 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Stack and Tilt” sounds like a porn version of a golf instruction video to me.

by Charles Boyer on Sep 13, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Canadian flavor of the week” ??? How DARE you ! The Canadian flavor was, is, and always will be….Maple Syrup ! :-)

I can understand of Plummer and Bennett’s upset-ed-ness (to borrow a grammtical turn from Woody Harrelson in “Whte Men Can’t Jump”) – several classic teachers have gotten away with claiming copyright infringements on “their” version of the golf swing. (remember “The X-Factor” and a couple of versions of “Natural Golf” ?) My problem with them is that Stack and Tilt isn’t new any more than was “The X-Factor” – but they did the marketing.

Foley hasn’’t added anything new to his teaching – he’s just running up against a couple of guys who have seen their 15 minutes of fame expire and they’re trying desperately to hang on.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Sep 12, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Natural Golf – I had totally forgotten about that!

Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.

by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tried Natural Golf once.

I was ordered to put some clothes on immediately.

by TXQ on Sep 12, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moe Norman was the creator of Natural Golf – and was a savant in his day. He was been described by none other than Ben Hogan as one of the two best ball strikers he ever saw.

Doesn’t mean it works for Harry or Sally. Norman had some mental issues and was never a huckster like some of the other so-called great teachers, and others took up his cause.

by Charles Boyer on Sep 13, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always got a kick out of Moe Norman because he wasn’t impressed with Tiger Woods. (this was in the first five or so years of Tiger’s career). He said that Tiger wasn’t as great as he was made out to be because he missed so many greens with a wedge in his hands. :-D

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Sep 13, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hogan's 'method' stands still has legs

I will just say it, why not stick with Hogan’s ‘Five Lessons’ and his ‘Power Golf’? Worked for him. Golfers are still in awe of his swing and achievements.

by mcctee on Sep 13, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

For a very simple reason – MOST players don’t have Hogan’s strength, practice habits, or need to avoid hitting a draw. For the average player, hitting a draw is better than trying to control a fade. Hogan’s weak grip alone causes most players to slash the ball off to the right.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Sep 13, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Court, where you getting this

“need to avoid hitting a draw” stuff from? If more players did hit a draw, they could play better golf….What your talking about, is a HOOK. And Hogan never did have a weak grip…He had a nutural grip….I use the same one, and my ball flight has always been a draw…not a hook…The problem most people have, is if in trying to copy Hogan, they don’t get the shoulder rotation he had, or the correct start of the forward swing by dropping the club down into the slot…They swing the arms, and that causes them to go out and over and get the slice…..jist saying mind ya…Sorry about them Hairy Dawgs a yourn….hehehe….STUB

by thinker on Sep 13, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I said...

…but Mcctee said most people should use Hogan’s Five Lessons method, which promotes a fade if you’re good enough and a wicked slice if you’re not. Hogan almost quit the game because he was constantly fighting a snap hook. Look at the drawings. Hogan’s left hand is weak, and compared to most modern teaching, a neutral right hand is considered weak.

Hogan was special. He dug that swing out of the dirt – most people don’t have that kind of intensity and understanding of the game to do what he did.

lol TX

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Sep 13, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have 5 lessons.

I believe any golfer who thinks about the golf swing should read it. It is a masterpiece. But Hogan had a hook under pressure and adopted the weaker grip to compensate for it. Now, anyone with average intelligence knows that a strong grip hooks, and a weak one slices. Hogan himself said his grip was for him, and warned against copying it to the letter…we are all made differently. As court says, digging it out of the dirt takes intense time…and most of us have real jobs.

by Easingwold on Sep 13, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

have you read “Power Golf”, too ?

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Sep 13, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have that too

he knew more by ’57 though. On the 5 lessons, I am still awestruck by the way he describes things…the drawings reinforce his thoughts like no picture can.

by Easingwold on Sep 13, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easy......

You said:

Now, anyone with average intelligence knows that a strong grip hooks, and a weak one slices.

Not true. I have an extremely “strong” grip and I can cut it or slice it any time I want….not by changing my grip, but by changing my swing or manipulating the clubface. While the grip is part of the swing, there are many parts of a swing that can produce a slice or the dreaded “duck” hook. Most “bad” slicers I’ve seen, slice because of their swing and not their grip.

The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!

by em66 on Sep 13, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't dispute than EM..

Above, I’m generalising. You can fade by setting up left with the face square to the target, slice by making the grip even weaker, etc. What you do is simply your way. Your grip is unusual, Azinger had such a grip, could fade and draw. But for most neutral grip players either extreme would cause the slice/hook. Hogan’s weakening of his grip stopped the hook …if you hooked you would probably have to do the same thing…my guess is you would be like Zinger and throw the left side out early to compensate. But I’m just a 10 handicapper who is facinated by these things…when I practise and hit bad shots, I like to think about why I am…shame I didn’t have more time to groove mine…and I’m getting older :)

by Easingwold on Sep 13, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that getting older thing really sucks!!!

I’ve noticed that the common thing for older golfers(me) is the propensity to “slide” the body instead of turning (loss of flexibility). Sliding and throwing the shoulders forward to get more distance is a killer, usually resulting in a weak push (even with wedges) because the head gets in front of the ball. Some guys try to “pull” the club through the ball with increased hand speed, but this requires near perfect timing, and when the timing isn’t there the ball goes everywhere. I try to minimizing the slide and focus on keeping my head behind the ball and make a good shoulder turn. When I get it all working my distance is amazing, but it’s a daily battle to make it all work. As for cutting the ball, I’ve found I can usually get that by opening the clubface and swinging normally.

I really hate this game…….:)

The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!

by em66 on Sep 13, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm on a diet em...

again. I too slide a bit when I’m tired…when I should be turning. My thought is to turn in one piece, but keep my left ear behind the ball at impact…like you, when I get this right I play to 6 or 7….when I don’t, it’s back to double figures. I think I slide more when I get lazy and pick up the club instead of turning. And It starts with the wedges. I think we have the same problem, lol.

by Easingwold on Sep 13, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m the poster boy for the lazy slide. Reshafting to a lower flex has really helped my mechanics – not forcing myself to swing to fast or hard.

What diet are you on ?

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Sep 13, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, as you know, I like my beer.

I don’t go mad, but probably drink about 10, 12 pints a week in summer. At 52, I gain weight so easy compared to 30 years ago. And I love cooking. My 34 waist becomes more like a 38 in such times…holidays etc. In November, I’m off to the Canaries for a week, so it’s a good target. I’ll eat a lot less and no junk. A little less carbs, but not severe like the Atkins diet. gym work, maybe this chain thing you showed me if I can get it. After November carry it on into the new year. I tend to get off track at times, but I’m tired of squeezing into the jeans…I won’t go up a size or I’ll stay that way, lol.

by Easingwold on Sep 14, 2010 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

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