UPDATE 3: Conspiracy Allegations Made in LPGA Disqualifications from Thursday
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 29, 2010 7:25 PM EDT
in Pro Golf
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PrintWatching the leaderboard of the CN Canadian Women's Open - this week's LPGA Tour event - two names sit at the bottom of the list. Shi Hyun Ahn and Il Mi Chung were disqualified on Thursday evening in yet another odd incident.
Ahn and Chung were playing with Danielle Downey. On the final hole, both Ahn and Chung hit their ball into the fairway. Each played shots into the green, with Ahn missing the green and Chung hitting it in regulation. Each player made par. Then the incident turns into a rules problem.
Larry Smich, a long time caddy on the LPGA Tour, says in his secondhand account of the incident that Ahn noticed after her chip and subsequent tap-in for par that she had played the wrong ball from the fairway onward. Ahn and Chung conversed in Korean, the group completed the hole, then signed for their scorecards.
Smich then says Ahn's caddy for the week, who typically loops on the Nationwide Tour, was told by Ahn, "You did not see anything."
This is a very serious allegation and it is not the first time that Smich has speculated about Korean players cheating on the LPGA Tour. He has been accused of having a vendetta against Korean-born players. On Saturday evening, Waggle Room learned that it was Ahn's caddie who told the story direct to Smich but may not be willing to share details publicly for fear of being shunned in the golf community.
We have learned of a second account of the situation. The second account is all the same until the green.
When Ahn and Chung realized what had happened, Chung's caddy approached Downey's caddy and said, "We have a bit of a problem, but I'm not saying anything." Downey's caddy went into the scoring tent. Ahn and Chung signed for their scores. Downey's caddy was prepared to turn in Ahn and Chung, which then prompted their seeking of LPGA officials for a ruling and their certain disqualification.
Waggle Room contacted the LPGA Tour for their understanding of the incident. Spokesman Mike Scanlan said in an e-mail, "The players sought out a rules official after their round to explain the situation and were subsequently disqualified.
"No one with the LPGA was privy to any discussions between the players and caddies in advance of the players’ efforts to seek out a rules official to explain the situation. We know only that the players came forward, admitted their issue and received the appropriate result based on the Rules of Golf."
Ahn and Chung have made no public comment about the incident and disqualification. But, it appears that the players will make an issue of it with or without Ahn and Chung. Bob Weeks reports that the LPGA Player Executive Committee will now look at the matter. The LPGA Tour will also investigate on their own, according to Steve Elling of CBSSports.com, who alludes to our report.
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Conjecture
The players sought out a rules official after the round to explain the situation and were subsequently disqualified. Perhaps Ahn asked “You did not see anything?” rather than stated it.
Yup, absolutely could have been a question. Would be absolutely different if that’s the case. (Hence the qualifying paragraph!)
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by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 28, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
But not the headline!
I’m serious about the statement/question theory. Contrary to when I studied French, for example, in colloquial French nowadays questions are frequently posed as statements with an interrogative intonation. I have no idea whether the same goes for Korean.
Beh, Oui!
Mais chacun sait la liberté coréenne de prise de dames avec les règles.
by Charles Boyer on Aug 29, 2010 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't the caddies watch where the shot goes?
So two caddies walked with their payer to the wrong ball then let their golfer address and hit the wrong ball without comment. Did either caddy say to their golfer “That’s not your ball. Yours is over there.” I could easily understand Shi Hyun Ahn asking his caddy, “You did not see anything?” Does Smich in his article say anything about the competence of two members of his profession to keep track of where their employer hit their shot or were the Koreans a better target?
What is known is that the two players played the wrong ball on the last hole and went to the rule official after the last hole and received a DQ as per the rules of golf. Anything else is speculation.
Larry Smich’s comment “Two players conspiring to cheat is unforgivable and should be dealt with in the harshest manner possible. No fines and no suspension. A lifetime banishment from LPGA competition is the only solution.” seems a bit over the top based upon the known facts. And in the event that the LPGA would make that ruling, he would use that as ammunition to continue to paint the Korean players with a broad brush of the same ugly paint..
Honestly Everyone
Larry Smich is a stand up guy and one of the reasons he is not liked by some is because he is an honorable man who does not put up with BS. It has cost him money but not his dignity.
None of us were there to be sure but Larry or most anyone would not open themselves up for that kind of scrutiny if something did not go on that stunk.
Because one wouldn't make allegation on an individual much less a race unless they were true.
His allegation would carry more weight if the caddies had approached the correct ball with their bag but the players then took their club and went to the other ball against the advice of their caddy. And why did the other caddy allow someone else to hit his player’s ball. I’m interested to hear what Danielle Downey has to say.
As for punishment of the Korean players he states "A lifetime banishment from LPGA competition is the only solution." He didn’t even qualify it with an “if”. On the Life on Tour blog, he was asked if the caddy who supposedly was told “you didn’t see anything(?) (.)” and didn’t report it immediately was guilty of complicity in the cheating and should be punished. His responce was “Since the caddy was not a member of the LPGA, disciplinary action would be next to impossible. He could always deny it.” His “throw the book at them” attitude suddenly takes a detour. Sound like he’s not really bothered by the actions of his fellow caddies. This doesn’t sound like the words of an “honorable man.”
His tries to make his case look like a wall of solid bricks but I sense it’s a deck of cards. There should be a much higher burden of proof between suspecting and accusing. And making the leap of “ergo all Koreans are cheaters” is the same as saying “Shi Hyun Ahn and Il Mi Chung are cheaters, ergo Ji Yai Shin is a cheater.” From these circumstances it would make as much sense to say “ergo, all cadies are incompetent, unethical or both.”
by sports medic on Aug 28, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur with most of the posts above...
this easily could be an example of an honest mistake, proper professional golf etiquette, and the tone difference of someone who speaks English as a second language. The engineering phrase for this is ‘system operating as designed’.
I don’t agree with all the posts above though:
A good example…There are two problems with this. First, if you are going to have a system where competitors keep their own scores, leaning heavily on the honor system, you can’t have monitors. Either have a third party keep score for all players (which in 2010, I think should be the case) or stay with the status quo.
of why many fans are uncomfortable with players who commonly speak a foreign language being on course without someone who speaks the language monitoring conversation.
More importantly, the idea that ‘foreign language’ players need monitoring is at the very least insulting and at the most prejudicial. As if two English speaking players couldn’t agree to cheat. Or Spanish speakers. Or Dutch. But lets be honest, we are not talking about Sergio Garcia and Camillo Villegas conspiring. Or Ernie Els and Louis Oosthuizen. We are talking about those damn dirty Korean women ruining the LPGA with their floppy little heads and their beady little eyes.
Never mind that the LPGA is looking to Asian markets for tournaments and sponsors as they dry up in the US (currently, the LPGA gets it biggest check from South Korean television rights), which means for more and more tournaments English is the foreign tongue. Never mind that the young woman the LPGA has hitched their star to (rightly or wrongly) is a much Korean as she is American. Never mind that the influx of Korean players has forces all players to step their games up.
The ‘Koreans are killing the LPGA’ meme is wrong and can’t die soon enough.
Well said, TwoNuse.
As long as every player learns to shout “fore,” no problemo.
scorekeepers
Either have a third party keep score for all players (which in 2010, I think should be the case) or stay with the status quo.
There is a scorekeeper who walks with each group. The scorekeeper counts strokes, but does not check that each player hits the correct ball.
I’ve found Larry to be informative about things behind the scenes and his version of Life on Tour, but he is very opinionated about a lot of players.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
Dianne
The game of golf has always been about honor. The day we need scorekeepers to keep the players “honest”, will be a very sad day indeed.
I neglected to mention that my primary duty as a volunteer walking scorekeeper is to provide the media with numbers. It’s not an official position.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
I was lucky
enough to do it a couple of times in an Australian open. Once with the last group and the eventual winner, Brad Faxon. It’s good fun huh?
The scorekeeper on a major tour doesn’t officially count shots – they just report what they are told by the player. The reason for that is that the scorekeeper isn’t expected to stand next to the player at all times, and the player could be off in the woods or in a bunker, and they wouldn’t know if the player had taken a penalty stroke.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
What normally happens, is that the scorekeeper, if in doubt. asks the caddy for confirmation. Not wise to ask a player who has just racked up a quad or such.
by chip n'putt on Aug 29, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you suppose...
…The Biv is sitting at home saying “I TOLD you this would be a problem some day !” :-)
I’d have to guess that the problem is more with the accent and trouble with English inflection than a real conspiracy.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
smich
is a sad, pathetic man. he hasn’t had a good bag in all the years he has been blogging. does anyone think this is a coincidence? he has shown racial tendencies the entire time he has had a forum, so i am not surprised that he is putting 2+2 together and getting 5. he’s often been stuck caddying for the ultra miserable dina ammaccapane because she can’t pay and he can’t caddy. he’s caddied often for il me chung and accepted her cash, but now that he believes she is cheating he disparges her? what a wonderful man. maybe it is time for him to get a real job.
First off...
I have known and played with more than a few Koreans, men and women and they are no more and no less “honorable” when it comes to golf than any other race. For Smich to lump them all in the same racial stereotypical boat, does the country and it’s people a serious injustice and labels him as being, at best myopic.
However, what I do have a problem with, is that both girls clearly knew what had transpired before they holed out. It could have and should have, been rectified then, well before they signed their cards. If that had happened, then there would have been no need for a DQ for either player. The ruling would have been a 2 shot penalty and both players would have had to replay the shots after the initial incident. Perhaps it was ignorance of the rules? I hope that is the case. I don’t know and neither does Smich. I wouldn’t dare to pass judgement on either girl without being party first hand, to what happened. Neither should he.
A lot of speculation at this point but..
I think if they knew they each had hit the wrong ball prior to making their final putts or signing their scorecards, they should have said something then, it would have looked a lot better.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Not just looked better....
but been better. Let’s hope it was rules ignorance and nothing more.
by chip n'putt on Aug 29, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Rule 15-3
According to the rule, if they had declared the mistake before they left the green to sign their scorecards, they could have gone back to where the mistake started, adding two shots, and re-completed the hole. The DQ comes from signing for an incorrect score – not hitting the wrong ball.
15-3. Wrong Ball
If a competitor makes a stroke or strokes at a wrong ball, he incurs a penalty of two strokes.
The competitor must correct his mistake by playing the correct ball or by proceeding under the Rules. If he fails to correct his mistake before making a stroke on the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, fails to declare his intention to correct his mistake before leaving the putting green, he is disqualified.
strokes made by a competitor with a wrong ball do not count in his score. If the wrong ball belongs to another competitor, its owner must place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
yep – but you left off where you got your information.
think they were just embarrassed about the mistake ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I bet they knew — and if they didn’t, they should have.
I am getting really sick and tired of the argument that if a pro golfer breaks a rule that they should be immune to it if they didn’t know the rule.
First of all, as a professional athlete, you should have a very good working knowledge of the rules. It’s your JOB for crying out loud. While a chemist may not know what will happen if s/he mixes every single chemical s/he damned sure should know the basics like not adding water to an acid (it blows up) and instead putting the acid in water (it just warms up the water some.) Why is a golfer any different?
In sports should a footballer know what offsides is? Should he know what a foul resulting in a yellow or a red card will be? Of course.
Golf is the same.
All that said, I think these ladies were willfully cheating after they discovered a mistake on their part. Innocent enough at the beginning, maybe, but later, it certainly seems like they were trying to cover it up and pretend to the world it never happened. IF the latter is true, a multi-year suspension is called for.
by Charles Boyer on Aug 30, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
OMP that they should know the rules and that goes for every Pro out there. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, more for the sake of the LPGA, than the players themselves.
Understood. And they SHOULD be given the benefit of the doubt.
If they are found guilty of willfully cheating, then look towards the Japan Tour for a punitive guideline. IIRC, they meted out a ten year ban on a player for willfully cheating.
This old world may be full of people who think cheating is okay so long as one doesn’t get caught, or that crime does pay, but damned if golf and the pro tours should ever fall into that mindset. One of the reasons I love golf is because it is a last bastion of honor in sports. If it falls into the trap of letting cheating slip by (and we’re talking about WILLFUL cheating) then it has lost a lot of its charm in my mind.
by Charles Boyer on Aug 30, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=reu-japanban
Here’s the person who banned themselves for 11 events. There was a six or seven year ban, though.
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by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 30, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I got my information from between my ears. Looks like there’s nothing wrong with my memory.
I hope it was a mistake. The caddies, if they knew what had happened, should have said something to them, no question about that, It will be interesting to hear what, if anything they have to say,
How far apart were their balls in the fairway when they hit the wrong balls ? I’m still amazed that something like this would happen with marshals locating balls and players marking their balls differently.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
The two balls were only a short distance apart,
not even close to, say, that of Lance Armstrong’s.
What possible reason was there to "conspire" in a situation like this ?
Two balls in the fairway – couldn’t have been very far apart – no real advantage to intentionally switch.
How about two golfers who are homesick and want some excuse to go back home to play on the KLPGA instead of staying in the US ?
(personally, I still think they just screwed up and were too embarrassed to fess up)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I think the conspiracy was to cover up the original mistake of playing the wrong ball. Both caddies would have/should have, noticed when they were cleaning the respective balls on the green.
by chip n'putt on Aug 30, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not just DQ ice cream, a Peanut Buster Parfait...
Or better yet, a frozen custard concrete.
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