UPDATE: The 21st Century Stamp Act: Yank Ryder Cuppers Not Yet Exempt from Athlete Tax
by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 13, 2010 4:37 PM EDT
in Pro Golf
Email
PrintAs you may know, Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs (HRMC) has, for several years now, levied a tax in the United Kingdom that provides the royals with the authority to tax foreign and domestic athletes on the basis of their earnings generated by sporting appearances in the UK. That may well be a deterrent to a number of American players that could face a hefty tariff by participating in the Ryder Cup.
The European Tour has been negotiating with HRMC to garner an exemption from the tax for American Ryder Cup participants. So found, sounds like no dice.
Waggle Room contacted the European Tour for an update on the situation. In a statement to us, European Tour spokesman Gordon Simpson said, "We have no further update at this stage, other than to repeat the generic statement we issued last week from Mitchell Platts, Director of Corporate Affairs for the European Tour, namely:
'We are aware of these tax rules which are discouraging leading golfers and indeed all leading sportsmen and women from competing in Britain. Our aim is to attract the best players to provide the best entertainment for our audiences in the UK and we strongly believe that this tax rule is seriously hampering our efforts. Discussions continue to take place and these discussions include The Ryder Cup.'"
It's an odd situation since Ryder Cup participants don't really get paid much more than a stipend for playing the matches. But endorsement income that could come from the appearance in Wales could be taxed.
UPDATE 4:30pm 9/13 - The Guardian has done a follow-up story on the tariff situation. It appears HMRC is unwiling to budge and the taxation of foreign-born competitors will boil down to shoes. Yes, shoes. (Actually, clubs, too.) American uniforms are provided to players with minimal branding. Since they are mostly contract neutral, players don't endorse the uniforms or their makers. But, they have the option of what shoes to wear. And if an American player wears the kicks that they tout weekly on Tour, they could be subject to the full tax HMRC wishes to levy.
A HMRC spokesperson told the Guardian, "If players are paid for using equipment or clothing at the Ryder Cup then they are liable for tax — even if it is only their shoes."
In the end, I'm pretty sure the European Tour will work something out - an exemption, pre-paid tax...something.
112 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Much ado about nothing
as regards US team – I very much doubt that new endorsements would be forthcoming specifically relating to their appearance in Wales. Too many ways to circumvent a direct connection anyway. Different story from Olympics where anyone winning a medal would expect endorsements as a result.
Now if you really want a story and to stand up for a poor innocent victim against HMRC -
I had a note through the postbox today asking me to call in at postoffice to discuss customs duty (no, not postage, you cynics) on a little gift from the USA. Negotiations tomorrow morning ;o(
Wendy......
when you go to the PO, open the box and exclaim “Oh my, they’ve turned yellow…..they’re ruined and worthless”……might help your negotiations……lol
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
Personally, I’d flee the country.
Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 20, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
A Tour player who makes the cut in Wisconsin has to pay state taxes on the earnings. A Dominican-born baseball player pays Federal Income Tax on earnings in the US. An athlete who earns money in the UK should be subject to the same tax laws everyone else is.
I’m not sure why this is such a big deal to anyone.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
Why is that exactly?
Does an American player benefit in any way from taxes levied by a foreign nation? Does he receive security from their military? Does he receive care in their medical system? Does he get mail through their post offices?
How about when he gets home? Is Uncle Sam taking his pound of flesh too, on top of whatever the UK might take? Why don’t we just have the U.N. tax people that pass through the airspace of any country and then make sure that everyone gets their “fair share” everywhere a person goes?
The idea that it’s just rich athletes that can afford it and should pay their “fair share” amounts to class warfare. Taxes are EVIL, plain and simple. We submit to them because they are necessary in a cohesive society to fund certain things. A necessary evil, but evil nonetheless. But being taxed beyond the bare minimum to keep society running is reprehensible. Sticking your hands in the pockets of people just because they can afford it is even more so.
by Double Eagle on Aug 20, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's see...
The host country of an international event provides the infrastructure that makes the event possible. They provide the airport and air traffic control system that allow athletes to arrive safely. Since the event isn’t played at the airport, the host country provides roads and bridges to get the athletes to course. The country is secure enough for athletes to participate without undue fear due to police, fire and, yes, military of the host country. Players don’t suddenly materialize on the course at tee time, then dematerialize after completion of the round. When you travel somewhere you use the infrastructure and services.
Mike, taxes are not the enemy. They are used to provide all the day-to-day things we usually take for granted. Just because you can’t see direct and immediate personal gratification from every dollar doesn’t mean you won’t benefit indirectly. If you’re looking for a pure Randian society, I’d suggest immigrating to Somalia. No government, no taxes.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
Careful or that straw man could catch fire on one of these hot summer days. I have never once advocated no government and I’m fairly sure Ayn Rand never did, either.
Of course, I hadn’t really considered all those day-to-day things that my tax money pays for that I tend to take for granted.
Like, the US Department of Education. Now there’s money well-spent. You know, the one that was founded in 1979, spent $32 billion last year, and yet national test scores have remained flat in those 30 years.
Or, nation building. Now there’s an all-American pastime. I love funding both side of a war and then trying to swoop in later to bring Democracy to people that don’t want it. Then, we let anyone in the front door that wants to be there (or simply ignore the ones that didn’t knock) and wonder why stuff is getting blown up.
And, there’s always the fact that the majority of union workers in the US work in government jobs and their salaries outpace both private sector union and non-union jobs. There’s a great use of my tax dollars.
I love the idea that I need government to run our traffic-choked roads. Meanwhile, Indiana privatized its turnpike, which reduced traffic considerably and put $4 billion into the state’s treasury. But hey, NJ is doing a great job with the roads here. Or not.
What a service government provides. You know, the one that ADDED 70,000 pages of federal regulations in 2009. Yes, there’s tax money well-spent.
All I have ever advocated is the minimum amount of government and taxes to do the things that the Constitution mandates, as well as other things that are NECESSARY to keep society running. If you need other day-to-day things that the rest of us take for granted, then kindly consider cutting a check for your share and let me opt out if I wish.
by Double Eagle on Aug 20, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
don't you just love government types ?
“free countries” ? what a joke.
Hey tax guy – the money you take in from the US Ryder Cup team is miniscule to the amount you’d lose if they decided it wasn’t worth the trouble to come over there and have all those fans paying your outrageous VAT’s for souveniers plus travel and lodging and food and whatever else goes on around a Ryder Cup match.
Brain dead friggin’ government employees. And to make it worse – Obama wants to use your system here – VAT is on the way.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
VAT is on the way
Really? Where did you hear that? Sources, CG, sources!
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
Your boy Obama has been talking about it since he got in office – he’s been calling it by a different name (brain fart here) – but it is a value added tax. He wants to tax producers of parts – then tax the maker of the product built with those parts – then tax the seller – then tax us. Prices are going to go WAY through the roof.
European ideas aren’t cheap – you ready for $12 a gallon gas ? Your buddy wants it.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
not good enough
If you don’t remember the name and you can’t provide an in-context quote, then I don’t believe you.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
lol – of course you don’t
now get out to the range – I want you hitting that 7-iron 215 instead of 210 by next week ! :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
i'm workin' on it
Ryan always finds a way to insert a topic like this so he can keep the hit count up and we keep falling into his trap. 8-)
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
It’s all a cleverly timed system so I can inject politics in the site once a week to get you all to fight :)
Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 20, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Court - we stole the idea from you
I can remember being told “and that’ll be $10 for Uncle Sam” the first time I visited the US and declaring that I didn’t wish to make a donation, thanks very much. Long before VAT was introduced over here.
Stop getting your knickers in a twist and read up on double taxation treaties for starters.
Nice try – but VAT is not an American invention. You came up with that all on your own. Just like your old electrical system that was based on a positive ground (even though the earth is negative ground), it’s backwards. VAT doesn’t work – you can’t tax yourself into prosperity…unless you’re a member of royalty.
You’re not talking about a VAT – you’re talking about a treaty taxation…and that’s ridiculous, too.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Just listen/read properly pls. Court.
VAT was introduced by that name in UK in 1973 as a condition of joining EEC as it was then (and as I still wish it was). The fact that your purchase tax (that’ll be $10 + x for Uncle Sam) wasn’t and isn’t called VAT is not relevant and it was certainly in existance pre-1973 .
YOU introduced the subject of VAT. My comment re double taxation treaties was not connected to that (which is why it was separate para) but related to the (extremely doubtful) possibility that US Ryder Cup players might have to pay UK tax on earnings/endorsements directly related to their participation in Wales.
Your need to make political points gets into the way of your common sense.
Sounds like you don’t know what a VAT is.
A value added tax – just an example – you’re starting a business laying bricks. You need bricks and mortar. The person who makes the bricks needs materials to make his bricks. He decides to buy those materials and have them shipped to his plant. Those materials are taxed. Then the bricks are made and sold to you – the bricks are taxed again – paying a percentage of that higher price. Then you sell the bricks to your customer as part of your contract to build a wall. Once again – the bricks are taxed. SO – thanks to you good folks in the EEC – we have a system where prices have to be raised even higher at all levels of production and comsumption in order to feed Leviathon because they refuse to cut spending.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Oh how I wish it still was EEC, Court
it’s now the EU – ruled by Brussels bureaucrats – which is definitely one thing you wouldn’t want to import.
I forgive you your superfluous example of VAT – just this once, mind you, – as you would (at this stage) give Stewart a wild card for US RC team.
Now – about double taxation treaties and my petition to HMRC? Oh wait – Her Majesty’s Ryder Cup!!! Tax away, Ma’am! That’s just for you Court ;o)
ah yes – it was EEC back when they were just Brussels sprouts :-D (just trying my TXQ chops)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I'm not speaking to TXQ at the moment
as he has singularly failed to give an accolades to my inspired acronym.
" TXQ chops" ?
oh – and in case you had forgotten – tariffs (which are what you are talking about) in this country came from…wait for it…BRITAIN ! Who we had to fight a war to get away from. (ducking) :-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Easing is busy fomenting insurrection on the IOW
or fermenting a thirst for the local brew. Possibly both.
I know – we just improved on it – and fixed that goofy plural problem you have :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
darn right – things like “the gallery are” ?? come on – everybody knows gallery is singular….then we went to work on fixing that driving on the left side of the road, followed by fixing that positive ground electrical system, and then the warm beer thing. ;-) (ducking)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
That warm beer you love sooo much
and fly over here to pay tax on so you can drink it .. better than your clear weak beer :)
LOL – we had some refrigerators sent over to Scotland for our trip – so we got your good beer chilled correctly ;-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
true true – of all the places we went that week, I don’t remember any of them serving warm beer. but even chilled, the beer isn’t American – you have a much higher alcohol content than we have here
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Higher Alcohol Content Than We Have Here?
You need to come up to Raleigh, my friend.
I will take you to a tap room of a brewery that one of my friends runs. One of his regular brews is called “Devil’s Tramping Ground” and it is a solid 10% ABV strong golden ale.
I have an SGA fermenting myself right now, albeit with a wit yeast (same as Hooegarden) that I will supplant later with champagne yeast so it will finish dry. It should clock in at 11% ABV.
La Fin Du Monde is another example you can buy in stores.
Reality is that the UK’s beers are around 6% ABV which are typical for American craft beers. If you want the really strong stuff, you need to fly to Bruges and then have someone drive you around Walloon to sample the Trappist ales as well as the Duvel and other similar beers of the region.
by Charles Boyer on Sep 14, 2010 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Those beers you and your friends are making aren’t for sale to the public, are they ? Isn’t that way above the legal limit for sales ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Yes, his brewery’s beers are for sale. We raised our max ABV for beer in NC to 12% a few years back.
Mine are not for sale, however, anyone who drops by the house won’t miss the nice kegerator in the kitchen. All you need is a glass and conveniently, there is probably a clean one sitting atop it.
La Fin Du Monde is for sale everywhere that allows it. I think GA has a low ABV limit, so you won’t see it there.
by Charles Boyer on Sep 14, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Strongest beer in Britain
is called Tokyo…made by Brew Dog in Aberdeen…18.2 % Off the shelf at supermarkets is Special Brew 9 %…most strong Beers are about 9 %…in pubs, up to 7 %, lowest 3.5 %
Collective nouns, like gallery, audience, etc., can sometimes take a
plural verb:
The gallery are putting on their coats.
You surely can’t say the gallery is putting on its coats.
Stub could, but you can’t. (J/K)
no – nobody in the US would ever say either one. we would say “the people in the gallery are putting on their coats” Gallery is singular – galleries is plural.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Nobody ?
So 300 million people in the USA all have a mastery of the English language ? That is funny.
Not sure, but I think Court is pulling your leg, Eas. You Brits
speak much better than we.
I presume you meant "Quiet (comma) TX." That's how the
Brits would’ve done it.
Collective nouns can be either singular or plural
(even in American English) depending on context, i.e. acting in unison or ndividually.
American spelling often makes more sense, though.
Jist what's them COAT
things ya talking about ? STUB
That sounds a lot more like a fee to pay for the guy sitting there deciding whether you should be let in the country as opposed to a tax on your earnings. I generally have no problem charging people for the services they elect to use, as opposed to charging everyone for services that they don’t want.
Oh and, I realize that you probably don’t consider that a “service”, but I do ;)
by Double Eagle on Aug 20, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
When Regan became govenor of California in 1967
he hiked the taxes in order to balance the books. VAT is nothing new. Get over it.
I was there.
He put tax hikes on everything. The price “plus tax” became a big thing in the late ’60’s in California. The books needed balancing, and taxes was the only way then. Now the democrats do it and you squirm.
raising taxes and putting in a VAT tax aren’t the same thing. completely different. the problem Reagan kept running into was that he would make deals with the democrats to lower spending – then they would see the tax dollars roll in and they started spending again. can’t trust government on any side of the aisle.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Those same democrats he used to be a member of
What a clown he was…he speeches were pronounced very well…if he could remember them.
oh – real nice Eas – the man was a great president – one YOU should be thankful we had since he took a lot of pressure off of you from the Soviet Union – a lot fewer missiles pointed at you these days. And making fun of someone who developed a disease like he had later in his life is not cool.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
yep – aren’t you supposed to be watching Nadal pull his underwear between points ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Why doessn't somebody tell him about that? He's like Norm from
Cheers. He expects his shorts to self-correct.
He was a good B movie actor who went into politics
and paved the way for more actors who have been in the oval office ever since.
Fewer missiles ?
they are so powerful they only need a few. The truth is you like Europe being your buffer zone against such enemies. You need us, we need you…stop this "we should be grateful " rubbish…you can’t do it on your own…and you never could.
which has always seemed to be a good argument to me. why do we need enough missiles to destroy the world a hundred times over when once will work….except on the roaches.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
because they a a deterrant
2,000 is scarier than 1,000 missiles. War games if you like..Look at my biceps !!
I’ll leave your biceps for the ladies if you don’t mind
SPEAKING of being a physical specimin like you, Eas – have you ever heard of speed chain workouts ? do a google search on speed chain golf
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
my brother just started doing the speed chain plus the NOS thing – he has added 8 mph to his swing speed in about 10 days.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Just looked at it...the Torso burner looks great
The kicking one could hurt the ankle if you get it wrong though…I might get into it…thanks.
I’m going to get to try them in October when we get together. He called me after his first 30 second set and said his arms arnd core were on fire…and he’s a tennis pro. he might have to call an ambulance for me (lol)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
it was still uncalled for – you wouldn’t want the queen talked about like that if her brain went the same way as Reagan’s
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I couldn't care less what you think of the Queen frankly..
If Reagan was ill whilst he was in office he should have stood down. Makes the whole situation at the time look even more foolish.
he wasn’t ill in office – and you’re still out of line – and I’m guessing you’re not telling the truth about the queen
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I'm not out of line...
I’m talking when he was in office. It was obvious he was a puppet controlled but the men behind him…like many world leaders are these days. The last great President you had was FDR…he did things he had to do for the times…the fact that these things are still there today just highlights the shortcomings of just about every President since in trying to dismantle them in a different era. As for the Queen…she is just another tax…albeit a very big one. I hope she is the last one, frankly.
sneaking in
I voted for Reagan FOUR times. Wish I hadn’t.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
I guess that proves it......
I’ve heard about you libs voting more than once……:)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
you know I mean...
twice for governor and twice for president, right? For the record, liberals didn’t vote for Reagan, ever.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
Thanks Court......
I should have known D wouldn’t get it……lol
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
no I didn't
I don’t speak teabagger. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to explain exactly what you mean?
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
You're out of luck.....
I don’t speak ACORNese…..
You gotta love those liberal intellectuals…..ignorance is bliss….go figure!
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
We Already Have a Form of VAT. It's Called Excise Tax
Amazing, isn’t it, that the first several links for “Obama VAT” on Google are the usual Republican “news” sources like Fox, the Washington Examiner, etc. In other words, hardly objective sources.
For you in Europe, that’s the Republican Party echo chamber where men like Joe McCarthy are hailed as misunderstood heros and those who are not in their party are called “traitors” (literally) and that their “hate their country” (literally.)
by Charles Boyer on Sep 13, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The last time I remember such deep divisions
in British society was back in 1984/5 during the miners strike. I’m saddened and alarmed at the current polarisation I read about now in the US.
It is sad Wendy
A democracy is also about compromise…getting along much like a family does. It is almost like each end of the spectrum in the US can’t stand each other. Sometimes, when the party voted in one might not agree with, one should make the best of it. After all, there are good times bad times whoever is in charge.
To Diane’s point, we do force payment on money earned in the US. The kicker in the tax really is on the endorsement money aspect of it because it’s difficult to measure in some cases how much influence an appearance in the UK would have on someone’s endorsement opps.
Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.
Exactly Ryan - which is why no tax will be forthcoming
The blanket clearance wanted for Ryder Cups in UK is more likely for the benefit of European players, plus it’s always easier/better to clear up any ambiguity in these situations.
Now, to more serious matters – about my petition to HMRC?
It's totally, completely & utterly Court's fault
Had to pay UK VAT on my prezzie. Hope he gets a stitch laughing.
There's never a fault line in any of Court's comments.
One of his comments convinced me as such.
What would happen if every citizen in every country around the world stood up to their government and just screamed “you are the dumbest people on the face of the earth ! YOU’RE FIRED !!!!!!!!”
Where do people with this kind of twisted government based imagination come from ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Sorry guys, I tried to come up
with something funny……couldn’t think of anything….)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
You would take their place court and do a worse job.
That’s why they stand for office and you just vote. You are not clever enough.
Somalia awaits you
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
Heh.
Pavin is now trying decide whether tri-cornered hats or powdered wigs will top off the US team’s Ryder Cup uniform.
Don't forget
the Stars and Stripes Bikini’s for the wifes/GF/others…..STUB
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Have a golf story tip? Contact editor Charles Boyer and he will follow the story! Thanks!
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
