For Pavin, The Woods Question Should Be Rhetorical
by Ryan Ballengee on Jul 26, 2010 11:58 AM EDT
in Pro Golf
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PrintOn Saturday at the Senior Open Championship, Ryder Cup captain Corey Pavin noted that he would be speaking with Tiger Woods in three weeks' time at Whistling Straits about the prospect of the distressed golfer being on his team at Celtic Manor.
Currently, Woods sits perilously on the eighth spot in the points list. Under the Azinger system that Pain adopted for fielding his squad, the top eight players in points automatically make the team. The other four players are selected by the captain himself.
Pavin said he wants to know if Woods has any interest in the competition. Of course, speculation is rampant that Woods hates team competitions and would rather not play. More acutely, Woods hates losing in team competitions, which has been a hallmark of the US in the Ryder Cup during his career. The US has never had a worse stretch in the matches than since Woods turned pro in '96. Losing that often will make the feistiest of athletes sour on the idea of playing with a seemingly inferior team against the Euros.
If Woods wants to avoid a pasting at the hands of a European team that Captain Montgomerie says is deep enough to field a B team that would beat the Yanks, then why should Pavin talk to Woods at all?
Jeff Overton, Ricky Barnes, and Ben Crane all stand to make the Ryder Cup team for the first time with a good finish to the points race. Why not let them play in lieu of Woods? They would appreciate the experience more.
Woods' game is simply brutal to play team match play golf right now. From one round to the next, he either can't get off the tee or put the ball in the hole. The latter is much worse for the American squad because putting determines the Ryder Cup. If Woods' flat stick is just as dead as it has been all season, Tiger's game becomes a liability to the Americans.
On top of that, Woods himself is a liability to the team. This is no red-white-and-blue-festival in October. It's in Wales at Celtic Manor. The Welsh are already mad that middling pro Philip Price isn't one of Monty's vice captains. They don't need extra fuel to flame Woods, who has been peppered by the media over there about his personal life and (maybe) impending divorce. That kind of distraction only hurts team golf. And for anyone who says that most fans are well behaved when in Woods' shattered presence, remember that this is the Ryder Cup. Beer swilling and smack talk are part of the package.
Honestly, Pavin would be a better asset on his own team as a player. With a runner up in Connecticut on the PGA Tour and a second this weekend at Carnoustie, Pavin is having a great run. He's 8-5-0 career in the event.
Woods? A pedestrian 10-13-2 with all but one of his losses in team matches. Good teammate hardly. Roni Detusch would sue Tiger Woods' Ryder Cup record for fraud.
Corey Pavin has a lot invested in this Ryder Cup. Every captain does. He has to ask himself if investing in the junk bond version of Woods will pay dividends in a very short term. Unless this is 2006 and everyone is buying second homes, then it won't. And in '06, the US was embarrassed again on European soil. No need to induce a repeat.
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So the number one player in the world (flawed system or not) should sit out because A, the British tabloid press will do what they do. B, Tiger sucks in team competition. C, Mahan and Crane need the experience or D, the weather in Wales in October sucks more than B. Actually, the weather in Wales at any time of the year, sucks more than B.
Play him with Stricker if you’re worried about compatibility. I think that’s a lock anyway. Better still, let the opposing captains pick the pairings of the opposing teams. Now that would be fun. Monty’s number one pick would be Sutton’s nemesis.
I am not a Tiger apologist, but tied 4th in two majors and 20 something in the other is worse than who?
Common sense has been lost in this whole debacle. It’s golf – go play for God’s sake.
Woods’ results in the majors – admirable as they are (at least the 4th place finishes) – does not translate to Ryder Cup success. Even at his best, Woods is a mediocre Ryder Cupper at best. For some reason, Woods fares considerably better in the Pres Cup. Perhaps that is the American track record/quality of competition there. But there’s something about his game that doesn’t fit the RC. And where he and his life are right now, it makes him even less of a fit on a team that is excited to defend the Cup.
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by Ryan Ballengee on Jul 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How many of the players from the last team will be on this one?
I can’t see Kenny Perry, Boo Weekley, Chad Campbell on the team. Justin Leonard and Steward Cink maybe as a Captain’s picks. Kim may not be healthy. J.B. Holmes is on the edge. That is more than half the team right there.
Tiger or no Tiger, there will be a significant difference between the 2010 team and the 2008 team. I don’t think there will be much momentum carryover.
This is true, definitely some serious turnover there. I have a feeling AK will be on the team based on what I’ve heard. But I would pretty much rule out those first three. Perry and Holmes made it special in KY because of the home turf thing.
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by Ryan Ballengee on Jul 26, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Justin Leonard
Fug et a bout it…. although i agree with your other picks 2nuse
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
I would take a motivated Mahan and/or Crane over a disinterested, pouting and ready to get the hell away Tiger Woods.
If Tiger wants to play, wants to win badly and wants to be a good team mate, there is no question.
If Tiger is going to be his surly, screaming, club-tossing other personality, then stay home, please.
by Charles Boyer on Jul 26, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a valid question. I would take Hunter Mahan and Ricky Barnes for sure over Woods right now. Barnes has been really consistent this year and Mahan has a W. I’d even dip down to take Stewart Cink or Rickie Fowler ahead of Woods right now.
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by Ryan Ballengee on Jul 26, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Me thinks Paul Goydos
would make a great Captains pick. jes sayin
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Good points all. My thinking is that if Tiger is a pick, then he will do it for the right reasons. I agree with OMP with all that he says. I also think that Tiger is well aware of it too and as such, it may be another step in the right direction. But I just can’t imagine leaving the best player in at least the last 30 years – love him or hate him, out of the side.
Goydos would be an interesting call. He has been a vice captain. Would be interesting to get him back on the playing side of things.
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by Ryan Ballengee on Jul 26, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
WILL BE full of smiles, chip
as he’ll be in the team room as an assistant to Pavin.
RB – I didn’t know he had been a VC /Assistant previously – I thought this was his first time?
Lets go by the numbers
The U.S. current Ryder Cup standings:
1 Phil Mickelson 5,768.749
2 Steve Stricker 3,402.676
3 Jim Furyk 3,280.085
4 Anthony Kim 3,238.309
5 Lucas Glover 2,980.874
6 Dustin Johnson 2,936.138
7 Matt Kuchar 2,890.959
8 Tiger Woods 2,773.305
9 Hunter Mahan 2,643.754
10 Jeff Overton 2,629.848
11 Ricky Barnes 2,599.191
12 Ben Crane 2,486.469
13 Stewart Cink 2,394.033
14 Nick Watney 2,297.974
15 Rickie Fowler 2,259.370
16 Bubba Watson 2,202.319
17 Bo Van Pelt 2,156.334
18 J.B. Holmes 2,129.010
19 Sean O’Hair 2,122.574
20 Zach Johnson 2,118.397
21 Ryan Moore 2,017.195
22 Jason Bohn 1,776.491
23 Kenny Perry 1,709.493
24 Scott Verplank 1,698.601
25 Bill Haas 1,643.070
Americans on the current PGA Money list:
2 Phil Mickelson
5 Steve Stricker
6 Jim Furyk
7 Matt Kuchar
9 Anthony Kim
10 Jeff Overton
11 Dustin Johnson
12 Ben Crane
14 Rickie Fowler
16 Bo Van Pelt
17 Bubba Watson
19 J.B. Holmes
-——————————————
22 Zach Johnson
23 Hunter Mahan
27 Ricky Barnes
28 Nick Watney
29 Ryan Moore
-——————————————————-
32 Bill Haas
33 Scott Verplank
36 Vaughn Taylor
38 Sean O’Hair
41 Ryan Palmer
43 Kevin Na
44 Heath Slocum
45 Steve Marino
46 Brian Gay
47 Lucas Glover
49 Bryce Molder
54 Paul Goydos
56 Stewart Cink
57 Brandt Snedeker
58 Davis Love III
59 Kris Blanks
60 D.J. Trahan
61 Cameron Beckman
64 Shaun Micheel
65 Charles Howell III
66 Derek Lamely
67 Blake Adams
68 Kenny Perry
70 Corey Pavin
72 Tiger Woods
73 John Rollins
I don’t think anyone under Ryan Moore on the $ list should be in consideration for a Captain’s pick before Tiger. Brian Gay would be the only one I would consider; I don’t think his 2010 is anywhere close to his 2009.
Also remember Anthony Kim may not be healthy enough to play.
So it comes down to this question; do you pick a collection of Rickie Fowler, Bo Van Pelt, J.B. Holmes, Bubba Watson and Zach Johnson before Tiger Woods? I’d pick Johnson over Woods right now, maybe Fowler. Holmes was on the defending Ryder Cup Team and has been more consistent than fellow basher Bubba Watson. And I’m holding out hope Pavin finds a way to get Ryan Moore on the team.
This while fun, is somewhat irrelevant. I’d wager Woods does well enough at Bridgestone and the PGA to make it on points. And he will play, he needs all the reps he can get.
TwoNuse. Agree. I think Tiger will make the team on his own without being picked. Besides, I like your avi more than pro’s. I can’t look at his bum and then concentrate on what he says. Sorry pro…what was that again?
I think I would take Fowler and Johnson over TW right now.
This is all totally conjecture to fill an idle Monday though :)
Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroom, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.
by Ryan Ballengee on Jul 26, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a thought here, but let's say the top 8
are in….than, and here is where I differ with most of you….I would make captains picks of the toughest young guns I could find….This is after all, a sporting event….let’s put the guys on the battle field and let them have at it…..sure make for some interesting viewing….STUB
Fowler, Ryan Moore and Zach Johnson would be three of my four captain’s picks. I reserve the right to wait until after the PGA to pick the 4th
by TwoNuse on Jul 26, 2010 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd pick me, before I picked Tiger......
but, I don’t like Tiger and I do like me………..:)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
The fact that Pavin has to ask Tiger
if he is interested in the Ryder Cup says it all. He’s a loner. Having said that, Stricker or Furyk would be his ideal partners. A European would never be asked if they were interested. Just sick if they miss the team.
Take the old Tiger over 4 rounds & he'd be threatening the leaderboard
Ryder Cup is one round at a time which is not his forte.
Tiger needs incentive......offer
him a blond bombshell after each victory and he’ll get you 5 points for sure.
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
Jumpn......now that Elin has put him
in the welfare ranks…..he’ll definitely want a week for each point……with free food.
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
if we've learned anything since Thanksgiving...
Tiger doesn’t need help acquiring female accompyment.
Alimony payments on the other hand…
by TwoNuse on Jul 26, 2010 5:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh no you don't......
We’re not having a Waggle Room benefit tournament to help Tiger pay his dues……..Don’t EVEN go there……:)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
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