Let Me Pick Tiger's Next Teacher
by Ruthless Mike on May 11, 2010 11:42 PM EDT
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PrintI thought I'd chip in with my two cents about "the split." I'd like to think I can offer a different perspective, although I certainly don't claim to know what's going on in the Tiger camp.
First, if you didn't see TGC on Monday night, they talked with a spinal specialist who (given the small amount of info we have) said that Tiger could very well have a herniated disk, and that it might indeed have been just a nagging pain that became worse with use until it suddenly became unbearable this past weekend. The doctor said Tiger might have thought it was something he could play through until that happened.
From what I heard of Tiger's presser on Monday, two things jumped out at me. One was the word "spasms." I can see how Tiger might have thought this was just some nagging pain that came from several months of layoff, and that it would pass in a few weeks. However, he clearly said that Sunday he could no longer make a swing without spasms. A painful full motion is definitely different from shooting pains that restrict movement, so I'm willing to give Tiger the benefit of the doubt here. He never tells us when he's in pain (for better or for worse), so I'm not surprised he didn't tell us about what might just be rust.
The other thing that stood out was his remark about having friends who had dealt with this, and that it could be serious. If you didn't immediately think about his friendship with Annika and the several months she spent in a neck brace after similar problems, this probably didn't mean anything to you. But after several months of rehab from knee surgery, I imagine the possibility of several more weeks in a neck brace would put some fear in you too. We keep talking about this whole idea of seeking some escape on the golf course; that would pretty much put an end to it, and I suspect it's a scarier prospect for Tiger than it would be for us.
After all, there's nowhere else left for him to go, is there?
As for Haney quitting, I tend to believe Haney when he says he called Tiger and quit, rather than Tiger firing him. Have there been stresses between them? I don't know. Could it have been a mutual decision? I'd be surprised if it wasn't; I don't think Hank would just walk out, nor do I think Tiger would just fire him. (Look, if Tiger hasn't cleaned house after that nightmare he's been through, he certainly wouldn't get rid of the one guy who helped him be successful on the one stage he's looking to for refuge.)
That said, I think (unlike so many others) that this is actually good timing for a split.
- Tiger says he can't make the moves. And it's unlikely he's going to be able to make them anytime soon, especially if he does have a herniated disk. If he intends to keep playing, he's going to have to rebuild his swing yet again.
- The Hogan swing is unforgiving. You can't half do it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Hogan swing's strength is that it's designed so that, if you don't do it right, you "get stuck." Tiger continues to get stuck because even he has trouble doing it perfectly. With his neck problems, you can kiss any hope of perfection goodbye.
- The constant Haney-bashing is a distraction for them both. If they split, the rumors stop. Haney will have to do a few interviews about the split, then they'll ask him to critique Tiger's new swing--just like they keep asking Butch to critique the Haney swing.
One last thought on the Hogan swing: Do you understand why Tiger didn't get the same results as Hogan? The Hogan swing was designed to eliminate snap hooks--what Hogan called "the terror of the fieldmice"--and you have to use his complete swing setup to make it work. That means you have to use a weak grip. The only person who ever used the Hogan swing with as much success as Hogan was Johnny Miller--and he used the weak grip also. You use it all or you don't gain the benefits. (Just for the record, Miller and Hogan also shared the yips with the putter. I think that's a side effect of the weak grip and the constant forearm twisting during the swing.)
So the big question becomes: Who will Tiger's next teacher be? I'm sure this will be a big subject of debate for the next few weeks, especially if Tiger gets sidelined for a while in rehab.
Tiger, if you're listening, I have one word for you...
Annika.
Look, she's got a teaching academy not too far away. You're both already friends. She's dealt with the neck problems, and she was the dominant player on her tour, so she's the perfect person to understand what you're dealing with. And since you helped her with her short game, I figure she owes you.
But best of all, imagine what you could do with that machinelike swing of hers! Imagine never getting stuck again. Imagine piping the ball 315, right down the center of the fairway. Imagine what kind of scores you could post if you were playing all your approach shots from the short grass!
Just think about it, Tiger.
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hmmm
a Tiger physique swinging like Annika…definitely not 315…maybe 290 or so, but he’d be in or around the fairway.
Interesting breakdown. Not sure anybody is going to be a help to the man right now – that neck’s a scary thing.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
The neck IS scary, and it needs to be cared for first...
But Tiger’s swing really isn’t that far from Annika’s — it just looks different because he has so much separation between his upper and lower body (that’s the Hogan swing), while Annika doesn’t have near as much. His swing would look a little different for sure, but that massive separation is the big problem. His natural timing would probably start coming back after a little time working with her.
I just think he needs some simplicity in his swing right now, then everything else will start to come back to him.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
BTW, I figured around 315 because Tiger has so much more leg drive than Annika.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
Why not...
…It’s as possible as anything else that’s come up.
…I don’t see the similarities between the two swings, and I never got the impression that Annika was big on swing theory and mechanics. She knew what worked for her. Men and women generate clubhead speed differently (women more with whip and flexibility less than strength) – and that move Annika has naturally with the head looking forward before impact just isn’t something you teach.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
pro
Actually JJ, the head move was something she was taught. Early on Anika didnt shift to her left side very well. So she was taught to rotate her head left to assist in weight shift. The rest as they say, is history. David Duval does it and for exactly the same reason. Started as a drill that got so comfortable, he just left it in his swing. Worked pretty well for him too. Interesting tid bit…………………Z
you're still away,...choke on it !
I understand why you don't see any similarities...
but bear in mind that I like to look at swings from a very broad viewpoint, especially when looking at problems. I want to fix the big problems first before moving on to the smaller, more technical ones. If you look at Tiger and Annika in the big picture, what stands out is Tiger’s “lag” between his upper and lower bodies — the source of his “getting stuck” problem — and that incredible leg drive of his.
Tiger’s first order of business should be to try and eliminate a lot of that lag, so he stops getting stuck. Once he does, his leg drive will become a major determinant of where he goes from there, since maintaining that leg drive without “disconnecting” will probably be the driving force (sorry, I couldn’t resist!) in any swing changes he makes afterward.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 12, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
AHA !
Checking out Annika from a “BROAD” viewpoint, eh ? (lol)
I wouldn’t be on the list of people Tiger would call – but I would recommend that he take several months off to heal and work on his flexibilty and mental health before starting to work on the swing. I’d suggest Tibet, but that would be dangerous – maybe another nice Buddhist country….or maybe a shao lin temple…learn to do some of those flying tricks. :-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
At least you didn't mention that "broad" viewpoint with Tiger. ;-)
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 12, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ruthless, I was going to let this pass, but just can't
What I would like is more perspective and insight from you…Indulge me please….What tour are you on? How long have you been a Professional and where and whom do you teach? Oh yes, Handicap also….STUB
The long and the short of it...
The teacher I originally learned from is Carl Rabito. He now works with several pros, the only one of which I can remember right now is Jeong Jang on the LPGA, and he is one of the 43 Certified Master PGA Professionals in the country. If you ever need lessons, he’s a great teacher.
I played a few local (NC) events about 5 years ago. To be honest, I wasn’t quite ready, but needed to put my swing under pressure to get it to “break” so I could figure out exactly what was “off.” I was also taking Tae Kwon Do at the time (some of my instructors played golf, one on the Nationwide) and I ended up with two consecutive foot injuries that put me out for quite a while. I literally hopped around for about a year. I ended up having to take a 3rd shift job that pretty much messed up my chances of playing. I lost that job last year, and the economic problems have kept me from getting back out and playing. My lawyer is getting bankruptcy papers ready now.
With that said, my foot problems finally healed up last year and I’ve been working on getting back in shape to try and play some more. I’m not teaching anyone; I’m just working on making the game easier for weekend players to learn — that’s the purpose of my blog. After I “broke” my swing and figured out the problem (in my case, it was a textbook position that didn’t work for me — that’s why I hadn’t been able to find it before), I was literally improving about 2 or 3 strokes every 9 holes I played. When I got the first foot injury, I had gotten back to the mid-70s. Ironically, my swing feels better now than it did then, so I’m really looking forward to playing again.
As for my blog, the basic premise is simple: We make the golf swing too hard because we focus too much on technicalities. In golf, to a large extent, mechanics come from feel. If you get a few fundamentals down and understand how they feel in your golf swing, you can create a simple repeatable swing that doesn’t take hours of practice to maintain. It doesn’t take years to learn how to control a tennis stroke or a baseball swing to be able to play recreationally and not suck — it’s not any different with golf. If you learn how you feel those few basics, you can learn to play by feel and not have to spend hours working to keep your swing in decent shape. And what I’m teaching on my blog is based on what Carl taught me 20 years ago — basics that literally dropped ten strokes from my game with one lesson.
That’s the short version, Thinker. Will that do? ;-)
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 13, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, Wendy! ;-)
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 13, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Where is it written that an instructor can only teach someone to swing the same way the instructor swings? Has anyone had a golf instructor that has totally rebuilt your swing because you were doing everything differently than the instructor? Obviously, that’s not how it works. A good instructor will within the student’s swing, not rebuild from scratch.
Placebos, of course, are things you have to swallow even though they contain nothing that actually helps you. It's like American health insurance in a pill. -BiPM
Pretty solid basics Mike
The problem with the Hogan theory was well stated. It’s all or nothing. However, there is one critical element overlooked. Hogan was 5"-7". Tall players have a natural move and plane that is incompatible to the Hogan setup. Tiger at 6’-2" has a naturally much steeper plane than Hogan and is a natural right to left player. Also, Tiger is extremely flexible and rotates his shoulders more than 105* on the backswing. His club at the top should be naturally pointing at the target from the top , even a little bit right of target. (ala Sam Snead) Haney had him laid off (pointing left) ala Hogan. But that shoulder turn is still 105* ! I’ve said for years that Tiger is the worst driver of the ball of any # 1 ranked player, and it is because of his large turn , but laid off position. He makes all kinds of compensations to get square at impact. When all "timed " in sequence it works. But he is nowhere near as consistent and effecient as he was under Harmon. Tiger is a tall player, and needs to take advantage of that and his natural ball flight. Haney tried to to get him to be like Hogan and as you said, it was disasterous. (He still won with great puttung and scrambling) His knee issues more than likely stem from from some of this.(that leg snap) Now his neck. The body protects itself. When one area is suspect , another will attempt to take on additional load. Tigers left knee is suspect and I think this is why his neck is hurting. Chain reaction. He needs to swing the club like the tall man he is and I’m betting his on course issues would evaporate. imo…………..Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
What's so funny to me is that...
all of us can see the problems except Tiger. They really aren’t that difficult to describe, are they?
It’s not that I think Tiger should swing exactly like Annika. It’s just that Annika is so good at making a simple swing — especially when it comes to keeping her upper and lower body in sync, which I see as Tiger’s biggest problem — and has so much experience that is similar to Tiger’s, that I think it’s a perfect match. As I’ve said before, Tiger can play with just about any old swing he finds laying around the course; he just need a simple swing that he can keep in the fairway.
And one that won’t hurt his body any worse. He’s not getting any younger, so he should build a swing that will age well.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
On Millers swing..
he might have had a weak grip from fearing the hook…but he was as upright as they come. His swing comes more from the Nicklaus era than Hogans…Faldo did both…I’d say Gary Player was closer to Hogan’s flat swing…he is not a tall man of course.
I agree that Miller's swing was extremely upright...
but he makes no secret of the fact that he was copying Hogan’s swing. Here’s one place where Jim McLean talks about it:
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/golf-lessons/great-golf-swings-johnny-miller/8/
But Johnny’s talked about it elsewhere many times.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 12, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Tiger's having problems not cuz of his swing, but cuz
he’s a swinger.
Mike I agree.
A simple swng is what he had with Harmon. It was lift and turn going back,…and turn and burn coming down and through. The club was always in front of him ,and thus he could hit it as hard as he wanted and stay balanced. See Adam Scott today and then watch Tiger. That is what Haney did to him.imo………………………Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
Guys...come on...
…there are a million swing guys out there with a million different ideas…and probably very few of them are entirely right or wrong on Tiger’s swing and what he “should” do.
BUT…and this is a big but (no – not butt – geez)(lol)…the guy doing the work has to respect the guy doing the teaching. Annika would be more likely to go to Tiger for swing help than vice versa. Annika played “girl golf” – hit it straight, hit the green, and make a few of the putts you end up with and you probably win. Men’s professional golf requires a lot more risk taking and exacting shots into greens in order to make putts and shoot low scores.
If Tiger called either one of you and he respected what you told him – I’m sure either one of you would be a great swing coach for him.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
No argument there, Court...
And I’m not saying Annika is the greatest teacher in the world. (If Tiger did go to her, I’m sure that she would have some of her teachers available to work with him.) But nothing he would get from Annika would hurt his his swing — her swing is so simple that it might help him clear his head a bit, which may be all he really needs. We all know Tiger is knowledgeable enough to keep his own swing in shape. But sometimes you can look at something so long and hard that you lose your way.
I think the greatest thing Annika could give him right now is her knowledge of what’s involved when a world-class player is returning to form from a neck injury… along with a friend’s ear for his frustrations. And those are things about which I think she would have his respect.
And don’t forget — Tiger tried to get Annika to play more than just Colonial. I think he respects her game more than you may give him credit for.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 12, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Your line “she would have some of her teachers available to him” takes Annika out of the running right there. You don’t really think Tiger would deal with the hired help, do you ?
No doubt they respect each other – friends and neighbors, too. But he’s not going to turn his golf game over to her.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
There you go putting words in my mouth, Court...
I meant some of the teachers who taught her! Pia Nillson would probably love to get Tiger on Vision54!
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 12, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We were talking about Tiger going to Annika for swing help…connected to Annika’s academy. Nilsson doesn’t work at Annika’s academy. Her place is in Arizona.
Vision 54 is more mental coaching than swing training.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I know Nillson doesn't work for Annika...
but Annika still could ask her for help with Tiger if she needed to.
Besides, Tiger needs some mental coaching right now… and don’t you think he would be the most likely golfer to shoot that 54, once he got his swing straightened out? ;-)
You love playing devil’s advocate, don’t you? 8-D
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
by Ruthless Mike on May 13, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Court doesn't "play" the devil's advocate,
he “is” said devil’s advocate. But a likable said devil’s advocate.
Whatever Tiger does from now on...
to break Jacks record and beyond, he needs a 10 year plan to play into middle age, without the violent swinging…it’s obvious to any sportsman that his body is breaking up and as we all know , us in our 50’s are paying a price for our crash bang wallop youth when we thought we could run through walls.
Tiger just needs someone who won't stick him to a flat
upswing ala Hogan like Haney did
If he can get someone who fits a more winded swing, he could go back to total domination
Imagine Tiger putting it in the fairway 2x as much. Scary
No matter how you slice it
we all agree it was time for a change. Tiger’s won majors with 3 very different golf swings, and I suspect that will be 4 soon enough. It may take some time, but he’ll get it sorted out. But I think he needs to deal with the mental / emotional stuff first, maybe even take the rest of the year off.
Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.
Charles A. Dana
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