Why Does the USGA Have to Fall on a Sword for Ping?
by Ryan Ballengee on Mar 9, 2010 10:16 AM EST
in Pro Golf
35 comments
The timing of the dual announcements from the USGA then the PGA Tour on Monday were obviously not coincidental. First, in the morning the USGA announced that it was planning to hold a forum in the fall in New Jersey to discuss equipment rulemaking issues ranging from research to communications. Consider it their Tiger-Sawgrass moment.
Then, the PGA Tour and Karsten Manufacturing announced that they have reached an agreement by which the PGA Tour will create a condition of competition banning the pre-4/1/90 Ping Eye 2 wedges that were grandfathered in as a result of two separate legal settlements reached in the early 90s between Karsten and the PGA Tour, and the USGA. The agreement kicks in on March 29 - the day after Tiger's rumored comeback tournament ends at Bay Hill - and will also apply to the US Open in June.
With those facts in mind, what is the point of the equipment forum? One would surmise that it's more of an open forum for the equipment manufacturers to openly complain to the USGA about the groove regulations.
The USGA has consistently given me personally every indication that they will not be rolling back the golf ball. Though much to my chagrin, that indicates that the USGA is committed to this rule change only. That said, holding a forum to discuss the process of developing and implementing rule changes makes little sense since another does not appear forthcoming. No, this forum is an opportunity negotiated on behalf of Karsten Manufacturing.
Some might have been scratching their heads yesterday to wonder why Karsten would give in so quickly and with little to no collateral to end this hostage crisis over the Tour. It's simple: the Tour is a dummy hostage. They're a hostage by history - of Deane Beman - and an era long gone. The Tour had no active intent to limit club technology on their own, but rather remained steadfastly loyal to their legal settlements and allegiance to our national rulemaking body. Ping had no reason to keep an eye on two prisoners, so it released the less threatening one.
It did so, though, with a bounty at the cost of the USGA. Sure, Karsten would be happy to do the right thing for the pro game and allow the PGA Tour to ban the U-grooves. No more allegations of cheating or photogs wondering if a guy's Ping Eye 2 is before April 1, 1990. The Tour can continue on its merry way.
Consider that there has been no settlement reached by the USGA and Karsten to end the loophole that created the PGA Tour's loophole. Sure, the national championship will not be mired in wedgetroversy thanks to the supposed benevolence of Karsten, but the issue is not completely settled. The Ping Eye 2s can still be used in perpetuity in any USGA amateur competition. Effectively, Ping gets to look like the good guy but really loses no skin in the game.
Meanwhile, the settlement is probably likely to come with the USGA after this equipment forum. It's the condition of surrender. The USGA has to fall on the sword, mow the lawn in their wife's Sunday best dress, and be laughed and pointed at by the whole neighborhood. Then the debt is repaid and the nightmare can end.
The USGA is having this forum to get the gun barrel out from behind their back. Had this really been necessary, the USGA would have had it before the grooves change announcement either in this decade or twenty years ago. But the position of the OEMs is clear regardless of where they can say it: they want no additional regulation of any technology. Then, you see, it makes total sense for the USGA to hold a forum on future equipment rule changes.
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They don't...
First off – can we not start linking every friggin’ conference or meeting to the Tiger Woods “gathering” ? This kind of thing has been the bane of us all since Watergate and “journalists” decided it was cute to put “gate” at the end of every controversy.
Falling on a sword for Ping ? Who says they are doing that ? This is kind of a knee-jerk reaction to Ping letting the USGA off the legal hook (thanks Uncle Sam) they’ve been on since 1993. Ping wasn’t going to make any money off of the use of the Ping Eye 2 grooved clubs – but the chip in their pocket was that court decision (thanks Uncle Sam – interfering in private businesses you had no understanding in).
Personally, I don’t mind this idea. Let’s get the design geniouses and the USGA in the same room. Instead of the designers throwing out hundreds of ideas and the USGA having to go through of them one at a time to be accepted or rejected – let them sit down and explain their own ideas and theories. Streamline the process. The designers will have a better idea of why the USGA accepts or rejects – and the designers can either explain where they are trying to go, or they will stop trying to make clubs that will automatically be rejected.
This SHOULD be a good thing…as long as both sides go in with a good attitude – understanding that they both want the game to be healthy…and the business side growing, too.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Why is Uncle Sam the problem...
if Ping was the one bringing the lawsuit? Not to veer off in politics, but if I remember, the courts didn’t parachute in while Ping and the USGA attempted to come to an agreement.
runs
the decision made no sense to anybody other than Ping, but the courts decided that they were better qualified to run the PGA Tour than the Tour itself.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Should the court refused to hear the case?
I don’t agree with the decision (if the fully credited governing body makes a decision about the sport, I don’t think a equipment maker can and should sue to get it overturned), but if the federal court system can’t mediate a dispute between two organizations, who would?
The courts do have that option – the court is allowed to recuse itself…or, if they insist on making a decision, tell Ping that they can make what they want, and the PGA Tour can restrict clubs as they see fit – but the courts really had no business telling the Tour how they run things…(IMHO)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
It sounds like we are in agreement...
that the courts should have supported the USGA’s right to make their own equipment rules.
Totally Agree
But (and I could be wrong about this), didn’t Ping sue but then come to an agreement with the PGA Tour before there was any kind of ruling by the court? Not that it really changes the underlying point, but if that’s true, then theoretically the court might have eventually made the correct (as we see it) ruling.
My understanding was that the Tour caved and settled. Maybe it was better to take that settlement than to risk future problems by letting a decision creep into case law that could set them up for many, many more issues like that one in the future.
Court, I tend to agree
with your scenario on the streamlining…the part of any of this that I have reservations on is WHERE DOES TECHNOLOGY END? Is our game going to be like baseball? (gawd I hope not) where the pros play one club, amateurs another (wood bats vs aluminum)..If this isn’t done right, that’s where we are headed…And why is the ball sacrosanct?…Are we going to have the same there? Jack N. has long advocated ball regulation…where is it…now there are balls for so many variables it’s a joke…I can’t hardly wait to see what junk comes out of this “conference”…STUB
That would be from the professional side of the ball - not ours.
What would be wrong with the pros having to use one set of clubs and the rest of us another ? Most of us play with what we like or what we can afford and never darken the doors of a tournament that would require “restricted flight” clubs (to borrow a term from softball lingo).
The rules of the game don’t change just because someone has one club or another in their bag – they still have to hit it and find it and hit it again until it’s in the hole.
If the idea is to keep golf course length more managable and not destroy great classic courses in the name of technology, it’s going to come down to this sort of thing.
The only people who really care are the club manufacturers since most golfers just run out and buy whatever they think is in their favorite pro’s bag anyway.
The only real performance reason that pro baseball players still use wood is the inside part of the plate. A good pitcher can still saw off a bat – where a pitcher in an aluminum bat league can’t count on an inside pitch ending up in a week pop up or ground out. I’ve seen home runs off of great pitches that should have ended up with a bat in 2 pieces and an out on the board. (and then there is that horrible sound an aluminum bat makes) Aside from that, they could design an aluminum bat, or some other material, that
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I agree with Court about the streamlining...
But Thinker, the equipment split has already begun. Michael Green at Aussie Golfer already ran a post about 2 new “pro only” Titlist balls:
http://aussiegolfer.blogspot.com/2010/03/golf-ball-for-professionals-only.html
I think it’s inevitable, if for no other reason than cost. Not all weekend players are willing to pay top dollar for balls they lose before the round is over, or clubs that give you an advantage if you have a 115 mph swing. We may even be moving toward a 3-way split between pros, competitive amateurs, and weekend players. The Eye2 decision could be the start of this: No for the pros, yes for the amateurs… and weekend players will use whatever they want anyway. It’s hard to believe the equipment manufacturers won’t tailor equipment to all three groups.
Mike Southern
www.ruthlessgolf.com
This really isn’t new except that the balls are actually marketed as “pro only”. Top players already have balls that are individually designed and formulated…and we handicap golfers have always had our choice from $10 fifteen ball packs of Top-Rocks all the way to $50 a dozen Pro V1’s. This is just another layer.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Mike, those pro balls stories are about 3 months old at this point.
Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroomryan, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.
by Ryan Ballengee on Mar 9, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's never a good sign...
when I read something and go, “Huh?”
I’m sorry, I just don’t buy that this forum has anything to do with Karsten negotiating it. Here is the quote from the press release:
Now that the first rollback of golf equipment in more than 75 years has been initiated, we believe that this is an appropriate time to evaluate the process utilized for formulating equipment rules.
In an effort to improve the equipment rulemaking process, the USGA will hold a forum on the process of equipment rulemaking in Fall 2010.
Explain to me how this has anything to do with Karsten?
And as for relating it to Tiger (Sawgrass moment)? Come on – in the press release it clearly calls this a forum and it is encouraging input and debate from the attendees…and heck, everyone is welcome! This is nothing like the Tiger “statement”.
As to whether or not the USGA will consider or implement anything that is suggested at this forum… or if they even really care what people have to say, well, I don’t know. But you know, sometimes people just want to be heard…and sometimes forum holders might actually find compelling and helpful information even if the original intent is to appease someone. The forum sounds like a good idea…what a great opportunity to get so many interested people in one place!
And good grief…from everything else I’ve read, especially here at Waggle Room, the use of the wedges, which has been limited at best, is not having any impact anyway – so what would be the big deal if the ruling stood and no agreement was made with the USGA?
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
I just read the other post that quoted the PGA Tour saying (and I paraphrase) in exchange for the waiver that Karsten and other manufacturers will have a stronger say in equipment rules. (sorry, I didn’t read that first!)
So, I guess I can see how maybe the forum was initiated by the agreement, but did we really need the melodrama? Falling on the sword??
It seems like a good opportunity for dialogue.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
just a nit – but it’s Ping and the Solheim family. Karsten Solheim was the Ping patriarch and he died in 2000.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
The company is still known as Karsten Manufacturing.
Find me! Email: ryan@thegolfnewsnet.com, Twitter: http://twitter.com/waggleroomryan, or Facebook: http://facebook.com/waggleroom.
by Ryan Ballengee on Mar 9, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Red,
I have a strong suspicion that the “dialogue” your thinking about, will be like exists between men and women…You know, how women needs 200 words to say something, and a man needs only 20…Than the man gets accused of not “talking to me”..Until very definite SPECKS AND RULES are in place, the so called designers will just keep submitting clubs until something passes….It’s a lot like Idea sessions…keep throwing stuff against the wall until something sticks….I still say technology has to end somewhere, before we lose this great game…Separate clubs, balls, next shoes, hats, shirts/skirts/shorts…and oh yes, underwear…If the ball manufactures are already making special balls designed only for that pro , doesn’t that already change competition? not everyone using the same “equipment” .. guess this gives off too strong and Oder for the PGA, USGA and the mfrs….STUB
Stub,
I have no problem with different equipment for different abilities. Just like I have absolutely no problem hitting from the “forward tees” when my playing partners still outdrive me from back on the whites (or blues).
Professional golf is competition at its highest level and I don’t blame players, and manufacturer’s who represent them, for wanting to have whatever equipment will give the best chance to be successful. I’m not sure why you think we will “lose this great game”…
Is it because you think we, as average players, won’t be able to relate? Do you feel the game is getting too easy?
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
No, average players can't
relate now…what 20 something handicap hits a 319 yard drive…hell, most can’t drive the ball 280 on a good day…and that’s with the most expensive balls…Blame the Pros…nope, their just out trying to do their job…win and make money…It’s the mfrs. who for chasing the loot, have convinced all that the next $500 driver was made just for them…watch TV ads for Taylor made on their new drivers…enough to make you gag…What I am advocating is the SAME RULES AND SPECS FOR EVERYONE…than let the talent rise to the top…is the game getting to easy….not for me, but then, I’m older than dirt, and pretty soon will join you on those “forward tees”….and you can have the honors my dear…..STUB
you weren't very specific...
…by “what 20 something handicap hits a 319 yard drive”…did you mean straight ? or does into the woods count ? :-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I always enjoy a great discussion!
Stub, let me propose this to you…I would argue that Joe Average golfer is the one who has countless advantages…they never play from the tips (and if they are, they probably shouldn’t), they are not playing for their paycheck every week (and if they are, they probably shouldn’t), and more often than not are not playing strickly by the rules of golf.
Regardless of the equipment differences, the 20 handicapper is nowhere near the same level of play as a professional player. I would argue that even if we all had access to the same specs, the average golfer wouldn’t be able to maximize the effect.
I’m thrilled that we have 460cc drivers, I love that on occassion I might hit a drive 200 yards and I love the forgiveness…if we hadn’t allowed technology to grow who knows where my frustration level might be.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
i was thinking about red’s 200 yard drives….now I’m wondering if the forward tees the women usually play are still the same yardages they were before the driver technology kicked in. We all know that courses have added a lot of yardage to the tips because of the bigger heads and longer graphite shafts, but are the forward tees further back ? Are forward tees on newer courses longer than they were ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
There was a time Court,
when a lot of courses here in the UK were only 6,000 yards from the back tees. In the ’90’s there was a golf boom and many new courses were built. This trend eased off but still new ones are being built. However, they are building them longer. My own club stretched out from 6,200 to 6,700 yards. There are 5 in my area that are now 6,700 or longer from the back tees. Most of the new hotel courses they have built in the last 20 years following the Belfy’s trend are all close to 7,000 yards off the back. So yes, I’d say to your question…and many 20 handicappers can’t reach many par 4’s in the summer in 2 shots.
can’t reach many par 4’s in 2…when playing from the tips ? so why play from so far back ? Just play a the tees that suit your game. A 20 handicapper should never play the tips unless the course is empty enough that they don’t hold things up.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I'm talking in compititions, Court
for thier handicaps, here, they must play in at least 6 compititions every year, otherwise it is deemed an inactive handicap. Even off the yellow tees it is 6,500 yards…long for thier standard. Any 400 yard par 4 is too much for them. 20 years ago, a lot of courses had more 330 yarders that required more thought off the tee. Now there is no option but one’s driver off these newer courses.
ah – I see. I like those shorter par 4’s with all the options, too. Do any of these guys request tees a little shorter for them to play ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
They don't exist..
Whites for comps, yellow for all men, red for ladies, blue for children. So even 80 year olds have to play from yellows at 6,500 yards…they keep coming though !
Stub......It's all about the MONEY!
The pros get special equipment and then get that equipment “fine tuned” to fit their physiology and swings. We can get “fitted” but it’s usually not what the pros are getting. Everything is about the technology….most people want to hit what the pros hit, and that means $$$$$ for the mfgrs. I hit the ball as far today as I did when I was 25. Is my swing as good as it was then…..not even close, but the forgiveness and spring effect with the driver keeps me playing at a fairly high level. What I see as the problem with most 15+ hdcpers is they always overestimate their abilities. Most of them are always short of the green, because the think they can hit it further than they actually can. They buy every new gimmick on the market with the hope it will give them a few more yards, but it rarely happens. I for one, love the technology…..it keeps my young…..lol
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
Funny that, 66er..
after 3 irons mentioned the Burner irons last fall I decided to try them. There is no doubt, I am a club and a half longer..I’m hitting this 7 iron further than I did 20 years ago. Yes, the shaft is longer and the iron 4 degrees stronger than then, but so forgiving ! Back in my youth ? Only untill I look in the mirror ! :)
No question that "pro only" equipment.....
Is better than retail, but only if one has the talent to extract the benefits. On conforming wedges, or more to the point “grooves”, the USGA has dropped the ball with this new rule. It doesn’t clearly state what they are trying to do, which is reduce spin capability. I know of several club mfgr’s who have submitted wedges that conformed to the specifications/criteria outlined in the new groove rule. Still, their designs were not approved because they spun the ball too much. WTF ? The USGA needs to state what RPM is permissable and to hell with specs. Adopt the same idea as in ball testing. Establish a finite set of numbers and that’s it. This is what pissed Callaway off, and led to Mickelson playin the Eye 2. MFGRS spend big $$$ to develpope a club that conforms to the rule, but it is disallowed because it surpasses a phantom RPM level that the USGA hasn’t decreed as law. Typical BS. This Karsten waiver will now allow mfgrs to be part of the process, and will save them huge R&D costs. In this respect, it was a fair agreement. Now, lets see the USGA live up to the “spirit” of said agreement. That’ll be a first……………………………..Z
you're still away,...choke on it !
Ping was getting crap as well
and it was obvious they didnt want to be associated with illegal clubs
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