"Socialized" Golf In The Republican Heart of Texas
by Charles Boyer on Dec 2, 2010 1:54 PM EST
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Goverment bailouts. These are almost curse words these days, and certainly one of the true hot potatoes on the American political landscape. Bailouts aren't popular, and more than a few long-time legislators were voted out of their formerly comfortable congressional seats last month in part because of their support for them.
It's not just the federal govenment giving huge sums of money to huge corporations like GM, AIG and others, however, and it isn't happening only on Wall Street and in the heart of the unionized Rust Belt. It's also happening in a part of Texas that's been described as "one of the most conservative areas in all of Texas" by a local politician. Indeed, Barack Obama and Democrats less than one out of every three votes cast in Lago Vista in 2008, and had he been up for re-election last month, he'd probably have been lucky to get one in five. It's Republican Country, capitals letters, and an area that the GOP can always count on to get the lion's share of votes on any election day.
But Lago Vista is also an area where the local government has taken over failing golf courses, and continues to operate them at a loss -- on the public dollar. This despite the fact that the courses in question have failed five times under private ownership, putting two of that group into bankruptcy court.
"We have a lot of citizens surrounding the golf courses," [Mayor Randy] Kruger said. "So if this thing turned into a weed patch, a lot of citizens would suffer."
You could say golf in Lago Vista was too big to fail.
"Necessity makes strange bedfellows," said Angelo. "The city realized it didn't have much of a choice other than to get into the golf business."
By turning to public money to rescue its ailing links, Lago Vista residents find themselves wrestling with a local version of a national paradox: How to reconcile their philosophical opposition to Big Government while at the same time demanding its tax dollars when a vital need hits close to home.
Sounds precisely like the talk coming out of Washington in 2008 and 2009: 'too many people would suffer if Business X is allowed to fail.' But instead of socialized car makers or socialized financial concerns, it is socialized golf.
One has to wonder exactly how would play in Peoria. Or, for that matter, in Havana.
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Do you ever wonder if politicians were the trouble making kids in high school who always ran their mouths and then came up with wild lies to cover their behinds ? Where do these people come from with stuff like this ? Didn’t have a choice but to get into the golf business ? Puh-leez.
I didn’t understand the Cuban pictures at first – but you could be right – this is our future with politicians like these guys.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Doubt it.
When a democracy drifts too far to the Left, you can be sure of a backlash. The Right gets back eventually. The trouble is, extremes never work for long. The Answer ? No one seems to know.
what democracy ? thankfully, neither the US or UK are democracies. unfortunately, the overwhelming basic political ignorance of the masses wants to think that we are.
the answer is simple – at least over here it should be. The government has no business taking over businesses – especially one that costs more than it brings in.
then again – this is not the federal government – it is a local government, so they have more leeway. the problem is the federal government overstepping it’s Constitutional bounds and pumping money into yet another losing proposition – wasting taxpayer money.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I'm guessing you think you live in the best place on Earth.
Even with America’s faults, you should feel lucky you do. If the US and UK are not democracies, do any exist ?
don’t you think you live in the best place on earth ? (personally, I wish I lived in Scotland) :-)
no – there are no democracies in this world right now – thankfully. Democracy is mob rule – whatever the majority says is what goes. Laws don’t matter. If this country lost its mind and voted 51%-49% that bank robbery was legal – bank robbery would be legal.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Democracy ...Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives
seems a good way to me. I can’t think of a better way to run things. If you have a better one, lets hear it now.
Democracy is one man one vote – majority wins – right and wrong are determined by majority vote. Are you SURE that’s what you want ?
Constitutional republic. Representatives are still elected, but those officials are supposed to live and govern under the Constitution. We have the representatives, but those people keep forgetting the Constitution.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Still the best system in the world
right and wrong are determined in that country’s laws. Or constitution. If yours fails to do that, you can elect them out in 4 years. Better than Cuba for sure.
Right now, Easing, a lot of Americans are feeling betrayed by the system, because no matter who they elect, the system never really changes.
It’s not as simple as picking Joe Goodguy to be our leader. Joe has to be able to draw money and media to get his campaign going and that makes him answer to The Machine.
Right or wrong, that’s the perception here.
by Charles Boyer on Dec 2, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I understand
here in Britain, the left and right are almost the same. I think as the world has gotten smaller, individual countries can’t play by their own rules as much as they used to be able to. Compromise seems to take hold everywhere
Hey EASY...whilst you were out
shoveling all that snow you guys have, I was out at the range…low 70’s and just a hint of wind…..A good cigar….Ah, Life is good…..As for the courses in Lago Vista, I can tell you why they went belly up…(just an expression Wendy, not to worry) They sucked…..both were built to sell housing development, and both were so bad, I don’t think they could give the lots away….They tried to use the native grass from that part of the country, and that stuff would withstand Semi trucks driving over it all day long….You can just imagine the grain….If you putted against it, you almost had to use your driver….Both origional developers went belly up and that was still in good times…..STUB
I take it you weren’t bouncing balls off of the old VW Bug or knocking the stick out from under the barrel. Any bug zapping bets while you were there ? :-D
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Don January and I were part of a "ground breaking opening" activity, that was
to get builders to buy the lots….They hadn’t even finished the courses, or buiit the club house yet…..I can’t recall, but I don’t think they had sold even 1 lot in the 2 days we were there….and to top it off, someone stole my Ping putter… Here’s the kicker….about 10-12 years later, I got it back in the Mail with a letter, that said they were cleaning out all the lockers and found the putter….I got it back because I had one of those name and address labels on the shaft…..after that, put those things on every stick I owned…..STUB
VERY cool ! Did it stil have the same grip on it ?
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Yup, The funny part was, it came in a box that you
could tell was for a club. I tried getting a hold of the name on the letter head (one of the clubs) but the phone was disconnected…never did find out anything further…When I told Don I had gotten it back, he laughed his butt off…Than a clasical remark…" I guess he didn’t putt so good with it "…oh well, I never putted that good with it either….STUB
what brand of cigars do you smoke STUB?
can you find real habanas now in the US?
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Saint, I don't wanna make ya cry, but these Puros come right off the Aud Sod
Actually, I have a friend in Tampa Fl. who is from Cuba and used to have his own cigar factory….Jist goes to show ya, sometimes it’s not what ya know, but who…..Ahhh, life’s good….A good Martini, or if not a single malt will do, an obliging long limbed beauty….to sleep, purchance to dream…..STUB
Martini and cigar..interesting..rather have a good old rum for my part..
best place, apart from Cuba, is at the duty free in dubai. regional editions for europe and asia, great prices. There’re 3 cigar lounges in Phnom Penh, where you can find every major brands. A lot of smokers are from the US. they do enjoy life don’t they.. ;-)
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Saint, I'm sorry, didn't mean to snub you...I prefer
COHIBA’s , the Lonsdale Grande 6-1/4" by 47 ring….there’s something that sticks in my mind about 6-1/4 inch but I can’t quite recall it…Oh well, I too like a good dark rum, with a splash of orange juice and my eggs and bacon, with well buttered toast (sour dough bread please),,,,hope Wendy reads this so she can remember what I like when I go calling….Only in the summer tho…STUB
Shopping list at the ready, STUB
Plenty of time to say how you like the eggs & bacon cooked (not that I’ll take any notice of course). The eggs are sunny side up and the bacon is crispy – my way or go w/o.
Wow, there's that mean
streak again….lol….The eggs and bacon will be fine that way, but I insist on Sour Dough Rye Bread Toast….And we can start with a Bloody Mary….STUB
great choice..nothing can go wong with a cohiba.
Best I smoked was a forgotten Ramon Allones i found in my father’s cellar..was all covered with that noble white mold you’ll see on great old cigars. Exquisite!!
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Right..the mold would put most people off
if they didn’t know the tobaco was still fermenting…The only tobacco from your part of the globe, that I know of anyway is from Samatra……STUB
unsmokable...
want to kill yourself, try one of those coffee/chocolate/vanilla cheap cigars we find at every street corners for less than a buck the dozen..yurk..cubans for me only thx very much. don’t want to sound too chauvinistic but it’s a bit like with wine..I’ve try them all and nothing compares to a bordeaux (red).
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Scotland (Alex Salmond)
is far more to the left than England, Court, so you’re just being sentimental not logical. As far as our (US/UK) political systems go – Two soldiers in a foxhole, bombs going off all around – “If you know of a better foxhole – you go find it”.
Wendy
A lot of people in the West want the good old days back. Those were the days when the West had no rivals and called the shots around the world. After WW2, first, the USSR and the cold war , and now, the rest of the world takes jobs abroad we used to take for granted. Mass unemployment, high oil prices, inflation, etc makes the world a more level playing field where we in the West don’t hold all the aces anymore. There is no easy answer and no country can go it alone. Even the USA. West is still the best in any case.
I think we've had a lot of years
in which to come to terms with the fact that we (UK) are not world movers any more.
I think American pride (well, Court’s anyway) is finding it difficult to accept that other nations are flexing their muscles and refusing to be bullied. I would love it for once, JUST ONCE, if Court tried to see “facts” from another country’s point of view.
yeah – that “the world is round” thing really made a mess of things for you guys ;-) (ducking) :-)
So tell me, Wendy dear, which country would you like me to see things from their prospective ? Dollars to doughnuts I’ve done it.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
China ? Japan ? Mexico ? Taiwan ? I don’t blame those countries for taking on the manufacturing that our own country can’t afford to do without cowtowing to unions and government regulations that would drive up the price of the end product beyond what anybody would pay. Americans have been brainwashed by phrases like “right to health care” and “right to own a house” and “a right to a living wage”. (to make it worse – we have idiots here who want to give terriorists the rights of a citizen even though they aren’t citizens and came to this country to commit acts of war – saying that they have a “right” to a trial with a jury of their peers)
We have destroyed our own manufacturing industry and forced companies overseas. It’s good business on their part and good for their country.
What I find funny, on our end again, is that these same countries charge our exports to their countries huge tariffs, while we make it easy for other countries to send goods to us. Pretty amazing, isn’t it ?
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I suppose if US wages were as low as some of these countries
The US could afford to manufacture those goods now made abroad. You haven’t destroyed your own industries..the rest of the world has simply caught up. Many industries in the West find it hard to compete abroad because our standard of living is so high and they can undercut us. When someone abroad can make what I can make for a quarter of the price it’s a no brainer who will lose out. This simple fact can not be ignored .
a quarter of the price, but at a cost...quality.
show me a car that is made to last 20 years? a power tool that has any warranty? and on i can go..hopefully the germans are here!!! :-)
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mercedes and bmw were built to last until the ..
end of the 80’s, that’s when they started buying/making parts in India and China..Good parts were used for the US market only, mostly due to the tougher conditions there, weitherwise. All the cars in Cambodia, either european or japanese, come from the US, for they are known to be better than if they were imported from their countries of origin. go figure…so we are left in europe with a merco 600 that will shut down all of a sudden at 200 km’/h in a curve on the highway..
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I get it now
You think the US should be a third-world country with low wages, no worker protections, no health care. I wonder what you’d be doing in the corporatist paradise, CG? There would be no need for sports talk radio, so unless you were born into an oligarch family you’d be just another serf.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
WOW!!! Court, I didn't know
you were a surfer. Cool Dude. I gotta tell ya, I’ve never been a fan of those “oligarch” farms. Those big ole birds are pretty, but I hear they can be mean. By the way Court, I was going to ask you for your definition of “twit”, but I think I have the answer……go figure!
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
D – would you send me your mailing address ? I’d like to mail you something. It’s called a calendar. We don’t live in the 1920’s anymore.
Your loyalty to the unions is pretty disturbing. The corruption at the top of these unions used the rank and file to fill their own bank accounts and hold the companies hostage to their demands. Tell me, D, just how is it that a guy who works an assembly line that is mostly automated should make $50 to $75 an hour ? How is it that if something spills, the line has to shut down while they wait for another union guy to show up to mop up the mess because the guy who spilled his coffee while watching the machines do the work isn’t allowed to wipe up his mess…by union rules ?
Since when is $50 an hour a “living wage” ? They are doing work that just about anybody can do with minimal training.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
OK, you’re king of the world. How much should a worker, any worker, be paid?
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
I’ll answer that: what the market will bear.
by Charles Boyer on Dec 3, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
excellent answer
For the sake of argument, let’s say I have most of the knowledge needed to do your job OMP, so I go to your boss and say I’ll do what you do for $30,000 a year less than what you’re being paid. I could do that because I’m single and don’t need to support a country club habit; I’d rather play daily fee courses. In CG’s perfect free market economy, if you refused to work for what I’m willing to, your boss would hire me and you’d be on the street. That’s what the market will bear.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
that’s IF the boss chose to go with your proposal. there’s another axiom I’m sure you’ve heard – “you get what you pay for” – and if your $30k discount turned into all kinds of programming errors and advertising you signed up that the company didn’t want – then what kind of “discount” would they have really gotten ?
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
What’s with the hypotheticals? I’m a competent programmer, my needs are considerably less than Charles’ and I want the job.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
so you’re saying that loyalty and company experience don’t mean anything ?
read what I said – if the boss wants to take the $30 saving to have you on board, and it’s best for the company – then he/she will hire you.
why are you making my points for me ?
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Loyalty, schmoilty. The boss is in business to make as much money as possible. I’ll improve the bottom line by $30K a year. I’d know the company drill in a week or two.
So, in your world this is OK.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
so much for your loyalty to the unions. you just put your own personal interest ahead of the masses. way to go D – you just crossed the picket line. :-)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
This has nothing to do with unions. Charles works in a non-union shop in a right-to-work state.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
and you don’t live where he lives.
you’re still setting up an example where you’re putting your own self ahead of the collective.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
yes I do know where he lives, North Carolina, which is a Right-To-Work state.
What’s this collective BS? Do you think I’m a communist because my politics are to the left of yours?
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
That's it, D
you know full well that Court faints at the word “socialist” so he’s just had a heart attack when you used the word “communist” in your post. Hard, hard, woman ;o)
ps What’s a Right-To-Work state when it’s at home, pls?
LOL, Wendy. I think he’ll manage, unless he’s watching Golf Channel too.
Right to Work: "State right to work laws essentially require unionized workplaces to become “open shops”. Open shops must allow employees to work, whether or not they join the associated unions or pay regular dues."
Wikipedia has a decent analysis of the conflict here.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
I didn’t ask if you knew where he lives – I said you don’t live where he lives
seriously ? you don’t understand that unions are collectives ? no point in continuing if you don’t understand even the basics of what you are trying to argue.
and your definition of a right to work state is completely backwards. a Right To Work State forbids unions for forcing themselves into businesses or forcing employees to join
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
D....What planet are you from?
I’m sorry, I reread this, but I still don’t see the part about when you get hired and then start whining about unequal pay……..for having “most” of that good ole knowledge.
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
wow – yet another over generalization – you’re good with those.
ask yourself this, D. Why should a company be forced to pay some guy $50-$75 an hour to do work a monkey could do, something they can go out to a high school and hire people to do with minimal training – while someone who does what you do, something that requires a lot of training and experience makes less ?
In a free market, the companies pay what they have to to get the work done. If they are a janitorial company that hires people to push a broom around – the pool of talent is huge, so they can pay less. In a high tech business like yours, the pool of talent is much smaller, so it costs more to fill all the desks.
It’s a pretty simple economics principle.
Here’s where I see the biggest problem holding our country back. We do not educate our kids correctly to move into the world of technology we’re headed towards. Thanks to feel good democrats, kids spend more time learning to give hugs and to worry that something they say might “offend” someone than learning to read, write, and speak correctly, do math, and learn the technologies that are going to make the future world work.
Technology eliminates labor. And if you can’t figure that one out on your own – ask yourself how much time you save having a washer and dryer, an electric stove, not just a telephone but a cell phone that fits in your pocket. How about street paving, hauling construction debris, street cleaning, janitorial work ? The more technlogy grows, the fewer people are needed to get a job done. We are not teaching and training people to do the jobs of the future.
Your plan is to force the people who did study and do find ways to be successful to pay not only for themselves, but for the people who are too lazy to do what you did to get where you are.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Court.....Nice.
Not bad for a serfer dude. Peace and Love……:)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
well what do you expect from the king of the world ? (hey – D gave me the crown !) (lol)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Even a redneck can be king......
what a deal…….I’m in awe of your kinginess….:)
(yeah, D, I know… it’s not a word….)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
come on – Jimmy Carter and William Jefferson Blythe “Billy Bob” Clinton ? Both rednecsks. Carter was a peanut farmer, and Slick Willie was…well…most of the negative definitions of “redneck” you can think of EXCEPT for being a hard working farmer. (astroturf in the back of the pickup anybody ?)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I really don’t think that things would get much better if every Democrat in DC went home and never came back. Republicans share as much blame for the mess we’re all in as anyone. Heck, to hear them tell it you would think that they haven’t held the White House all but 2.5 terms since Carter…in 1980. Of course, they’re good at blaming “Congress” — which they have held majorities in and have been constituent parts of the whole time anyway.
Yeah, feel good Democrats, it’s all their fault. The Evangelical Hypocrites, the Less Government (except for your genitals) Crowd, the Pro-Big Business, Screw Everyone Else COC, they had nothing at all to do with our problems.
Except they did.
And to prove that things are still as they ever was: the Anti-Earmark TEA Party Caucus in Washington used the 111th Congress to request hundreds of earmarks that, taken cumulatively, added more than $1 billion to the federal budget.
Sure, right, THEY are the solution.
Except they’re not.
by Charles Boyer on Dec 3, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Best post I've read in a while.
Thanks. :-)
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
I know – but it’s fun to pick on D’s drones – and she loves firing back thinking that I’m a republican :-)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I see you as more of a Libertarian in the Ayn Rand sense. Is that correct?
by Charles Boyer on Dec 3, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Forget the 1920s. Following World War II, good union wages allowed working-class stiffs (like my parents) the opportunity to join the middle class. They were able to buy houses and cars and televisions and all the other made-in-America stuff they coveted in the 50s, 60s and 70s. They were also able to send their children to college rather than to the workforce (those who couldn’t sent their children to be cannon fodder in Vietnam, but that’s another rant). After getting high, dropping out and dropping back in, we Boomers decided greed really is good. Some of us, those who found ourselves in the right place at the right time through no fault of their own, became corporate executives who decided if manufacturing moved offshore shareholder equity would grow. And so they did.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
and naturally, TV’s and all the other trappings are a “right”….right ?
sorry – you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. cast your lot with organized crime, you get Barrack Obama
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Hmmm, would Tom Delay be organized crime? I mean, considering his recent conviction. Obama is by no means the first or even the worst we’ve seen in that regard.
Jack Abramoff favored no party, let’s not forget it.
by Charles Boyer on Dec 3, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Is it not a good thing that people get a decent wage for their hard work ?
Court assumes people working in a factory within a union don’t work their guts out. A lot of “talented” people behind a desk haven’t got the guts to work like that if they were out of a job. Every job is important. The people that take away Court’s garbage deserve a proper wage. Court is right about training however. Manufacturing has gone to cheap labour abroad. The West, with it’s lavish lifestyle, in comparison to the 3rd world, has to find ways to keep it’s population satisfied.
We keep going through this – and I keep saying that unions had a place in the world 80 years ago when manufacturing was extremely dangerous. But when organized crime worked their way into control of the unions, they became as corrupt as any criminal enterprise except they had the backing of the federal government against the corporations.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
They had a place too
When greedy bosses payed a wage that would barely feed that workers family. Is that what you mean when you say disrespectfully a monkey can do the work ?
again – you’re talking 80 years ago.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
really ? and how are you qualified to make an accusation like that ? You know nothing of how I run my business or how I pay my people.
yes – paying people $50 an hour to watch an automated assembly line is too much. tell me, Eas, if the guy who mows your lawn, for example, was out buying a $300k house, you would probably go out and hire a cheaper lawn mower.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I know nothing of how you run your business.
But your attitude speaks volumes. And I do my own gardening thank you…I’m one of those monkeys you are talking about.
umm – monkeys don’t garden
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
as I said – get over yourself – it’s a very common phrase.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Can you get over yourself ?
It is obvious as a boss, you can’t see basic human needs. it is your responsibility to look after your workforce. When that does not happen, unions are called for.
disrespectfully ? when a job takes no education and can be done by anybody – especially when most of a job is done by automation – you don’t have to hire highly educated and trained people.
get over yourself Eas – it’s a common phrase
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Put it this way
If you don’t pay them a decent wage, they will simply get benefits you hate so much. Then you will get the immigrants you hate so much working for a slave wage…meanwhile the bosses sit on the profits, but the country is in disarray. Nice try.
now you’re changing the terms of the debate. and what does “get benefits you hate so much” mean ?
Slaves don’t get wages.
Bosses don’t sit on profits – where did you learn about business ? Profits either go back into upgrading and growing the business or they go to stockholders who invested to help the business in the first place.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I think one example of
of your lack of understanding of other countries is when you use an example such as “the guy who mows your lawn”. This may be very common in the US, but would be unknown here except for the exceptionally wealthy.
My mother always told me that to work is honourable, and she held several manual jobs. The “benefits” Easing refers to are social security payments – like unemployment benefit as it is called here.
Of course bosses take profits – just think of the obscene bankers’ bonuses.
It's a different world in the USA Wendy
It goes back to asking court to look at things from another countries view. He can’t.
& the whole thing about
organised crime working their way into union control is not something that pertains here. Sure, we’ve had (& still have) some power-crazed union leaders, but the majority are pretty responsible.
I have never been a union member and was part of the 92% who voted against unions coming into IBM UK – but that was because of the incredible level of mutual trust between management & employees at that time & excellent pay & conditions throughout the company. Don’t know if that would still be true if that referendum were held again today.
did I say anything about your unions ? that was a reply to D.
interesting that you voted against unionizing where you work – placing your own personal skills and abilities above those of everybody else. You understand that there are people who get jobs that don’t do them very well, and they become dead weight to the company. Under union rule, the company can’t get rid of those people.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
that’s an amazing level of arrogance, Eas. Especially when you do the same thing from your English perspective.
time out – Win McMurray break…..
You are used to a more socialistic society. You do things differently than we do here…in fact, this country was started specifically for that reason – they didn’t want to do things the way you did things. You make your system work the way you want – and we do things our way. And in a more or less free society, there will always be good times and bad times.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I see – so you think that Americans don’t have the “work is honorable” mindset – meaning that ALL Brits do ? Nice try.
Golly gosh, Wendy – you just put a huge number of “agricultural engineers” out of work. I choose a job out of the air as an example, and all you can do is say “we don’t have many of those people here” ? That’s brilliant.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
On golf subjects, Court
I think you’re great.
On political & social matters, your wild swipes do you no favours.
my wild swipes ? I’m not the one who declared that her country is 100% made up of people who love to work – then accused the US of being full of lazy people.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
We Brits work harder
that our EU partners. More hours and that is a fact. As for Americans, you live more in a "dog eat dog " attitude..Not all..but Americans like you are so arrogant about the rest of the world you miss the main point…we all have to get along. The pity is it is too late for you to learn a few basic facts…because you choose not to.
I've heard the french were the most
efficient…but as they work less and less hours, at one point no more work will be done… ;-) Then again, every country makes its own publicity..when we see the fiasco that is airbus.. between the proud Teutons, the all business Brits and the ever arrongant Frenchies…lol
Ad augusta per angusta
you were right until the lazy part..
some people didn’t have the same chances in life that you may have had. I am not a big fan of the we’re all equal at birth BS theory. We might be equals in the eyes of god and justice (in a perfect world) but it’s lying to say that we are geneticaly equals, or socialy equals. Sure sociaty is trying to erase the differences and give the same chance to everyone (again in a perfect world) but being the last kid of a family of ten with low incomes, having a QI of 75, a crooked leg and weighting 200 pounds at age 11 will narrow your perspectives…a bit..so what’s left for those? We’ve been told, we’re ALL equals, but for some it’s gonna be harder ;-) (michel colucci)
The thing is, sociaty needs its uneducated/unpaid labor class. Now, in western countries, where (almost) everybody is literate, more and more jobs are given to foreign labors/slaves for they are the only one willing to do the job for peanuts. On the counter par, those who have the power to vote and not the will to work a lower status/lower rate job do not see this invasion of foreign workers with a good eye (sempiternal, eat my bread and rape our girls diatribe). Politicians and ceo’s found a way to balance the angry power of the mass and that of the financers (companies) of the eligible morrons, move our companies where the foreign labors/slaves come from…deceptive and treacherous decision for what we can tell presently.
Ad augusta per angusta
You’ve lived in other countries, CG? I had no idea. Which? I’d love to hear your stories about surviving on the local economy.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
don’t be a twit, D – read what Wendy wrote
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Court.......Don't be labeling
people…..that’s my job!!! Hey D…..don’t be a TWIT!
Ok, now let’s continue…..:)
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
my bad – I shoudn’t have trodden on your territory, your highness….DANG ! another label….I did it again…. (lol)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I tried Singapore, but it was before lasik and my glasses kept fogging up. :-)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
You would love Singapore Court. The Unions are run by the Government. For some odd reason, we don’t seem to have a whole lot of strikes. Go figure….
best government union strike ever – Ronald Reagan had to deal with air traffic controllers who thought they could go on strike. He fired them all.
Teachers unions, air traffic controllers, government workers – tell me why, if the government is so wunnerful to work for, do they need to unionize ?
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Stub. Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai are the financial kings of Asia. Singapore, because of it’s geography, has most of the shipping in this part of the world come through it’s port. It has the biggest oil refinery in the world and the busiest harbor. Here, it’s all about shipping, oil, banking or pharmaceuticals. One of the highest home ownership’s in the world, a maximum of 20% personal tax and boy, you have to be earning a serious amount of money to be paying that. The best part though – no chewing gum allowed! Oh and their golf courses are pretty good too.
amazing – so what you’re saying is that Singapore is taking advantage of their advantageous location on the planet to build a financial empire ? Call D ! Close down the island – go on strike ! There shouldn’t be any poverty in Singapore ! (lol)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
There are very few homeless people here. There is also very little welfare. Sink or swim seems to be the maxim.
a phrase that has a lot of meaning on a relatively small island. :-)
didn’t say anything about homeless people – I said poverty. if everything is so great in Singapore, why are there high priced private schools or people living in mansions while the po’ folk live jammed in small urban apartments ?
it’s all in how you look at it.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Nonsense - it made all the difference!
Once we realised we weren’t going to fall off the edge of the world,
we ruled the ocean waves for hundreds of years. Rule Britannia!
(Shame about the Ark Royal, eh Easing?).
Read a good American snark after the Wikileaks:
“Gordon Brown snubbed when requesting Gary McKinnon (US Security hacker) serve sentence in UK prison if found guilty – what?
It wasn’t good enough for al-Megrahi!”
It was wittier than that – but you get the gist of the thrust?
Is a shame, Wendy
I was just leaving the service when the last Ark ( of sailing fame )was being mothballed.
At the moment I am reading
“That Sweet Enemy – Britain and France – The History of a Love-Hate Relationship”. The immoderate egos of Kings (& Queens) – wow!
You really think I could get away with a phrase like “Rule Britannia” in our Franco-Brit. household except as a joke?
no doubt – I’ve only spent 7 days there – just loved the place and the people.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
You might not like it there if you had to work there.
Holidays are not reality. And you wouldn’t like Alex Salmond telling you what to do.
I’m not sure I agree with the motivation behind why this city decided to take over this golf course, but I do think that municipal golf courses do have their place in communities, especially when private groups/business either have no interest in providing something, or don’t make it accessible to general community. Golf courses in many communities are a great draw to bring customers to many other businesses in a community.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
Hi Red...your point is good...The problem
with the Lago Vista issue, was there is really nothing in the area to support the private development that was done….It was one of those “if you build it they will come” things….Guess what….nobody came….nothing there to attract them…STUB
"So if this thing turned into a weed patch ...
a lot of citizens would suffer". In what way exactly? Does this simply mean that their property values would plummet? Is this an issue unless they are forced to sell?
I would be pretty put out if my local municipal course was running at a loss paid for out of my local taxes.
You wouldn't feel that way
if your chipping and pitching were better……:) j/k
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
what’s this ? em got a new driver ?
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I hate to point out (heh, heh, heh!)
that em has been having a little trouble with his driver of late. Tit for Tat, em ;o)
Wendy.....nice, very nice......
I would always want you by my side in a battle……oh, yeah….Driver is improving. Doctor got my meds sorted out and I’m feeling better than I have in months…..looking forward to playing now. Heading out there in a few minutes…..
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
I'm really really glad about the meds, em - great news
makes such a difference (and not just for the golf). Hope you have a great round. I’m also grudgingly glad about the driver – I’ll let you know about my chipping when I get a chance to use those lovely new Pings.
By your side, back to back, watching your back – I’m that kind of girl!
Started the new meds on Tuesday
and started feeling the effect yesterday and am feeling great today…..didn’t even complain when my wife mentioned putting up Christmas decorations…..so I’m really excited to play today and this week-end.
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
wait – you have medicine to improve your driving out there ? How come the rest of us haven’t heard about this ? :-D
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Shot 37-35, even par today.....
killed my driver. Hit 3 par 5’s in two and just missed the other. I had 5 birdies and 5 bogeys and bogeyed the 3 easiest holes(either lost my focus or it was just pay back for dissing Tiger……..can he do that?). Can’t wait for tomorrow, 75 degrees here.
Wendy, if I can hit my driver, you can definitely hit those chips…..
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
I'll try, but we all know about golf.......
no two days alike…..I’ll probably throw out a 92 tomorrow….argggh…I really hate this game…lol
The Saints ARE the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS....WHO DAT!
Golf's Like A Capricious, Beautiful Woman
She has you right where she wants you, addicted to her charms.
She’ll be kind to you one day and give you all the confidence in the world.
The next she will turn her back and pretend you never existed.
Other days, her moods switch by the moment.
Yep, golf is like that.
by Charles Boyer on Dec 3, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
nice round em
Here’s hoping you shoot 2-under today.
"(I)f you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinsky
So basically just an investment gone bad…I guess I’m not sure why the City feels compelled to keep supporting it, do you know why, Stub?
Are they concerned that property values around it will drop?
What if they just plowed it up and put more houses or retail there?
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
of course not – they have 1 and 2 bedroom flats since everybody’s the same there, right ? (lol)
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
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