Billy Payne Took What He Had to Restore the Roars
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 15, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
36 comments
Everyone already knows my thoughts about the architecture of Augusta National in its current form. I'm not going to rehash that. But, courtesy of a Geoff Shackelford post and his respondents, I think we are beginning to get a picture of how Billy Payne sought to restore scoring to Augusta.
Here's what he did:
- Softened the greens so that they were more receptive. This made scoring easier and did not force players to fire away from pins and use slopes to careem the ball toward hole locations.
- Per Ron Sirak's reporting, Payne had the grass grown slightly longer on the putting surfaces and around hazards so that they would hold shots better.
- He used the full length of the extended tee boxes to shorten holes drastically as compared to the scorecard number. In particular, 11 and 15 were holes that used these tee boxes to their fullest extent. In fact, Steve Williams referred to the tees in the first two days as ladies' tees, from an AP quote.
- Several fairways were widened by removing the "second cut."
In other words, Billy Payne recognized that he couldn't take Augusta National and make it into the same kind of animal that it was before the changes. Instead of insulting Hootie Johnson and that administration by quickly reversing changes, Payne opted to take what he had and use the setup (combined with great weather) to dictate scoring.
No wonder he said early in the week that he felt the weather played a huge role in high scoring in 2007 and the Sunday groans of 2008. He knew that if the weather held that he could have Fred Ridley's team set up the course to induce scoring conditions. Mr. Payne is a very smart man. He took a gamble that the weather would play out and it did. The result was an excellent tournament in terms of scoring.
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"restore the roars"
sigh – the Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Johhnie Cochran legacy lives
It’s just amazing that these whines don’t happen when Tiger is playing well enough to win.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 15, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Court, I talked about this stuff in 2002 through now. I didn’t have this forum to do that, but I have. It is very clear that Billy Payne took a different route to ensure decent scoring. This isn’t even whining. These are facts. You don’t whine about facts. You report them.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 15, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
:-D Just giving you a hard time.
But you still can’t take one element and make sweeping condemnations. If you leave out the weather – you weaken your argument. If you take out the newness of the changes – you weaken your argument. If all you care about is what sound comes from the gallery…err….patronage…then you fall into the trap of ESPN where only the highlights matter, and if Tiger doesn’t win, the tournament was bad.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 15, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think Payne knew that he needed the weather to be right in order for what he intended to do in terms of setup to work. If the weather sucked, there would be nothing he could do about scoring. And then people would complain a ton about it being like 07 and 08, which Payne didn’t intend to recreate. I agree with you on that point, then. It worked out that Payne’s intention and the results matched, which was good.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 15, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What tournament course ISN’T set up for good weather ? (or at least consistent weather – like Hawaii and the winds)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 15, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying that it is never set up presuming good weather. But Payne said in his comments that 2007 and 2008 were as they were because of weather. Really, setup had a little more to do with it than he led on. He made setup changes for 2009 that – if things held – would make for much better scoring.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 15, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better check your history – ‘07 and ’08 were horrible for weather. They had to put up with high winds, temps in the 30’s and 40’s, heavy rain.
if you insist on picking on the course – the only place to get annoyed are the greens. They were not designed to be played at 14-16 on a stimp meter. They weren’t designed to be played with bent grass. They were designed when thick bermuda was all they had – slow and cushiony to catch balls so they wouldn’t run into the next county.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 15, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Court, I’m saying that THIS YEAR, Payne made specific course setup decisions to improve scoring. He said that THIS YEAR would be a test for the course. He didn’t let on specifically why. We now know why – he set up the course (greens, fairways, and hole locations) to optimize scoring if the weather this year was ok. It was. We got scoring.
I didn’t say anything at all about ’07 and ’08 being good years for weather. Everything I have said in my post and responses has been about the 2009 Masters.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 15, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE didn’t do any of those things. Payne is the SPOKESMAN for the course – the Chairman of the club – HE doesn’t make any changes to the course.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 15, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone particularly knows the Chairman’s role down to the letter, but he is definitely more than just spokesman. Way more.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have spoken with Billy Payne – he has been a guest on the show several times – the LAST thing he would ever pretend to be is a course architect.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yet you’re still convinced that Payne and Johnson were responsible for the architectural changes to the course.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In part. They’re the leadership of the membership that brought in Fazio, selected him, approved his work order. They had to agree – at least in principle – with his design principles. Those design principles are in contradiction with the original Jones/MacKenzie principles. So, they are – in part – responsible.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see...
…so there have been NO changes since the 30’s that have radically changed the principles of Jones and MacKenzie ? ONLY the changes that Hootie and Billy personally and directly made ?
I guess changing from bermuda to bent grass on the greens wasn’t major. Should they still be cutting the fairways with the same machines they had in the 30’s and 40’s ? You’re theory is that there the trees in the ground when the course was built are the ONLY trees that had ever been there until the evil Hootie stepped in ?
It doesn’t matter that the equipment, that had been fairly consistent until the mid-80’s when metal heads started replacing wood heads, exploded with new technology to make players longer and in some cases straighter. Right ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have definitely made significant changes since the club’s inception. The changes you described about grass and grass cutting is agronomy technology – not course design. There’s a big difference.
No, my theory about the trees that Hootie had installed are that they are the trees that took away from the design principles. Case in point is the trees on the left at 15. They were never intended to be there. The point of the hole is to bomb it as far as you can anywhere and then see if you have a shot at getting over the pond.
I have argued repeatedly that many of the distance changes to the course aren’t the problem. Technology has evolved and all courses have had to respond. I think some of the distance changes – 4, 7, 11, maybe 15 depending on the day – were not well done.
Again, the bulk of the problems I have with the design have to do with tree installation and the “second cut.”
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
so – guys hitting 3-wood/8 or 9-iron into a par 5 was what was intended by Jones and MacKenzie ?
Length doesn’t impress these guys, and AN only has so much land to work with. They bought land to do what they could. They were left with the options of “rough” and trees to tighten the course.
You cannot name a hole that is shaped completely differently than it was originally laid out. Tighter – yes.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say that. I said that much of length added was ok for that very reason. The only hole that was really intended to be short iron was 7 because of the green complex.
Length actually plays a big role for these guys at Augusta. The greens are so nuanced that hitting one or two clubs higher is a BIG deal there compared to other courses.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok – so where do you want to go to make the course longer ? And what happens in a couple of years when these guys are averaging 320 off the tees ?
you have complained that the course was too long – then complained that the rough and trees are against the philosophy of the course (I’m still looking for that evidence – it was laid out the way they saw it in the 20’s and 30’s)
now length is good – but how long ? where are they going to go ? that fence line has a bit to say about it.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am ok with the way length was added almost everywhere on the course, save for the holes that I mentioned. Payne did a nice job in having 13 and 15 use the tee box to help make the hole play shorter to incite going for it. (That’s why I say 15, depending on the day, is too long).
These guys will not average 320 yards off of the tee. The equipment roll back has pretty much assured us of that. We’ve seen a leveling off in the distance explosion of the 1990s and early 2000s.
Again, you’re being too generalist when you read my critiques. I’m not saying that distance and trees are bad for the course in general. I’m saying that they’re bad for the course in places where they take away from the original intent of Jones/MacKenzie. I’m against the rough everywhere. 1 inch rough is stupid.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be very curious where Ron Sirak got his information, "Also, grass was allowed to grow ever-so-slightly longer, preventing balls that in the past may have rolled into water to hang up just short. I have read nothing of the sort where specific details of ANY type were released to the press or the public.
The options Mr. Payne, and the Augusta National tournament committee, decided to implement were available to Hootie and the same committee since 2002. Next year, they may just opt to set scoring goals of even par, or higher.
If anyone out there feels Billy Payne jumped the fence and joined Shackelford and that group regarding how Augusta should be set up and deserted the ‘men of Green’, you are very, very sadly mistaken.
by One-Eyed Golfer Guy on Apr 15, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A few things:
1. Augusta National isn’t going to make a public statement about how they set up the course. Payne did not do so and they never do, except in the fall to announce how things will be different than last year on the course architecture. That was likely reporting done by talking to members and people in the know. This is nothing new.
2. Payne let on in his press conference that this year would be a crucial test for the course. He also said that he felt that weather was the primary reason for the scoring of ‘07 and ’08 (largely true). He said that if weather held this year, he expected to see solid scoring. He didn’t let on that his setup this year – weather permitting – would allow solid scoring.
From his press conference:
It looks like we are going to have some pretty good weather this weekend, and so I think we will continue to look at that. But I think we are going to see some good scores shot this week, and we are going to see the course played as it was designed to be played when those changes were made. I think we are going to be pleased with the results.
3. Payne does care about the public perception of ANGC and the Masters. If the Masters is seen as anything other than unique, special, etc – which it is – then the public may not be as loyal or interested in the Masters. That’s why the PGA Championship went down the crapper in the 80s and 90s. They played at dog tracks and were nothing more than your run of the mill event. The Players Championship was primed to be the 4th major then. That’s why they call it the fifth major now. Except the PGA of America got their act together and started playing great courses with generally stern but fair scoring conditions. (Last year not withstanding.)
Again from Payne’s presser on the criticism from the public:
You know, I would make the analogy that, you know, criticism hurts a little bit, and not as much to me as the entirety of the enterprise, the employees, the staff, the Members.
It’s like when you go to a piano recital of one of your granddaughters and you hear somebody say, “Boy, that’s the worst kid I’ve ever seen.” It hurts your feelings. (Laughter).
But most of the people I have read that comment from, they are certainly entitled to their opinion. I am hoping that the consequence of good weather and further thinking about the course and the strategic approach to the course through time will eliminate most of that criticism.
4. Payne has made comments in public that subtly berate the changes made under Hootie’s chairmanship. He has indicated that he wants to balance the line of not insulting what Hootie felt was right. After all, the membership did back the changes.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 15, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet some complained early it was TOO EASY
There is no winning
I loved the tougher changes.
The course has never stayed the same for longer than 15-20 years in its entire history
It changes, big deal
by AppleCub on Apr 15, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think day one was a little too easy, but the other 3 were just how they should be.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you’re entitled to your opinion (no matter HOW misguided it is !) :-D (bwaaaahahahaaaa) (just giving you the needle)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer it around here when we disagree. I think it brings out the best in my writing because I try harder to write in a more convincing fashion.
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh – well – don’t get too down – we’ll go easier on you next time…let you think you had a chance :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, I already know that I won this round :)
by Ryan Ballengee on Apr 16, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh-huh…and here’s your ice cream cone. (lol)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Masters and golf in general.
Thank you for this site, I just found it today and I am a golf event producer in Los Angeles and do celebrity tournaments that raises money for charities. I thought the Masters was back after a hiatus. The weather, of course, was a big reason and the set up was conducive to good scoring and golf needed that desperately. Spring is here and golf is on the minds of many of you who live in the North or East and the unofficial kick off is the Masters. True golfers who watched had to get the urge to get back out there and start to practice or play and if the Masters is exciting than golf is off and running. The game needs to grow and exciting golf on television is a must. New ideas need to be tried to get more people into the game. The era of fat old white guys playing golf is over. Golf needs to reach out to everyone now or it is going to be over.
by Fortune favors the brave(s) on Apr 16, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome FFB !
Great name – hard to believe you get away with it in LA since the Braves are in Atlanta ! :-D I just hope you’re right – our bullpen is going to need some good fortune.
“The era of old fat white guys” ??? How far back do we have to go to get rid of that ridiculous bit of insanity ? “Fat” shepherds in Scotland ? You don’t see “Fat” guys in the great paintings surrounding the game. How about…wait…Vardon, Jones, Snead, Hogan…nope. How about…nope…Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Norman, Watson, Faldo, Woods…not them either. These are the faces of the game. This “fat white guy” crap came from class warfare artitsts who pointed at Country Clubs and the people who worked hard and made the money to join those clubs. They completely ignored all the muni’s and public courses where the masses played. Unfortunately, enough people are either ignorant enough, or enjoy the falicy enough for their own purposes (media, etc) to continue spreading this nonsense.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our Bullpen is a problem again this year and I hope Bobby Cox wakes up and deal with it soon than later. The fat white guy comment was a quote from an vp of a major club manufacturer that is trying to come up with a 10 year plan to deal with the changing face of golf and not about tour players past or present. My point is golf needs to appeal more to everyone and it is very hard because of all those things we all know, time, money, access, etc. Golf is at a cross road right now and the lousy economy is not helping. This is where Tiger Woods is really needed and do you ever hear him say anything like play golf America? No!
by Fortune favors the brave(s) on Apr 16, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you in Atlanta ? I thought you were in LA. They looked bad last night. I’m hoping they are just trying to get themselves into a flow and haven’t found it yet. (personally, I’m going to the Gwinnett Braves games this weekend)
a VP of a major club manufacturer said that ? Brilliant. “Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people,” eh ?
What is this “crossroads” that golf is at ? Are you saying that golf will disappear if Tiger doesn’t say something ? He was the tip of a huge expansion in the golfing public…until a lot of people found out that golf isn’t as easy as it looks, takes up a good chunk of time, and isn’t exactly the cheapest game to play. (not being combative – just wondering about the thought processes)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Los Angeles, but a big Braves fan.
by Fortune favors the brave(s) on Apr 16, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you’re a good man
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok - so maybe I was wrong...
…Bob Smiley (ForeRightBob.com) got ahold of this revealing memo from Augusta National to Sergio Garcia…
The Augusta National Golf Club released a statement today that marks the latest twist in their ongoing drama with Spain’s Sergio Garcia. The statement in its entirety begins below:
April 15, 2009
Augusta National Golf Club
For Immediate Release:
On Sunday, Masters Invitee Sergio Garcia told the Golf Channel that, in his estimation, Augusta National was "not fair." While Garcia has since withdrawn his statement and apologized, we wish that he hadn’t. In fact, the club would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Sergio.
Sergio was right to accuse Augusta National of not being fair. It’s a charge we can not in good conscience deny. Truth be told, the course was setup in a specific way that made it almost impossible for Sergio to win. You see, the course as dictated by this year’s Tournament Committee demanded that the winning player must be someone who can putt.
We apologize to Sergio for the confusion and wish him luck in 2010.
(Now THAT’S FUNNY !!) :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
by courtgolf on Apr 16, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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