Tiger Woods Did Not Dupe Us, We Duped Ourselves
by Ryan Ballengee on Dec 23, 2009 11:05 AM EST
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PrintI was reading a story in the Palm Beach Post this morning about a customer at golf store Golfsmith that went berzerk when she saw a poster of Tiger Woods hanging over a display of his Nike branded merchandise.
She yelled, "Philanderer! Cheater!" at the poster. At the poster.
This lunatic represents how a good chunk of the populace feels in the wake of the biggest cover-up since Enron. Frank Rich had it right in the New York Times. Tiger Woods is the scandal of the decade. Since his days of fist pumping and comebacks in his three consecutive US Amateur wins, the myth of Tiger Woods grew mightily.
It was aided by his father Earl, who often went out of his way to overstate his son's future impact on society. Most scoffed at the prophecy that Woods would be bigger than Gandhi. As it turns out, Woods certainly is in this country - and most for that matter. Ask any American who Gandhi is and what he accomplished before his assassination, and you're likely to get blank stares. Inquire about their opinion of Tiger Woods and it may ilicit the same kind of reaction as the lunatic in Florida. Tiger Woods is bigger than Gandhi - maybe not in history's long-term gaze, but in his lifetime he is.
The pristine Woods reputation was aided by golf's history. Long perceived as a symbol of largess and class separatism, golf was easily scorned by much of the country as a game they had no place in playing or watching. WASPs dominated the sport until a mixed race kid from the Los Angeles suburbs took his God-given ability, honed it under his parents' tutilege (the only thing keeping them together, really), and unleashed a fury of birdies and eagles on the golf world in a way never seen. Though the golf world has never really seen Tiger as an underdog, that was his role in popular culture. To society at large, he broke away the chains of class, gender, and racial segregation that was the hallmark of he sport. The fist pump that accompanied the final putt of Woods' '97 Masters win by a dozen was a big "F you" to golf's past. It had to be, right? How could Tiger want to be involved with golf otherwise?
Clearly, Woods' sponsors created an image that netted them both billions of dollars together. Nike, AmEx, Gillette, TAG Heuer, AT&T, Accenture - half of those brands were built solely on Woods' public reputation. Had anyone in the United States even heard of TAG Heuer before Woods signed with them? I can remember having no clue what they even made. The golf standard was to sign a watch deal with Rolex. Keep in mind, Tiger was portrayed to be different. He went with a different watch.
The ad slogans that accompanied Woods' marketing campaigns are now comic fodder. The accenture ads that will cost the company millions to remove from airports nationwide are a monument to the way we once saw the icon. In those Woods ads, we saw something of ourselves - the potential to overcome the glass ceilings and internal roadblocks that prevent us from usurping control of our destiny. Or, at least that was the subtle idea.
Unfortunately, what we saw mirrored in those ads was a lie. What those ads were promising are largely not true. Less of the population is a millionaire. More people are without jobs and health care than when Woods began his pro career. Society is still fighting about whether climate change is real or not. Perhaps the biggest societal accomplishment during Woods' career is that Barack Obama is President. And even people on the Left would say that has not even panned out to be as great as they imagined.
Little did most know that Woods was Dorian Gray incarnate. What Woods saw on the inside, in the mirror, was utterly different than the youthful, hip, and perfect exterior. Woods is deeply flawed, just like you and I. And apparently that is an outrage to a slew of his fans or people who vaguely associated his namesake with victory, justice, or whatever other traits they projected onto him. Millions of people feel duped by revelations of Woods' off-course life.
Why?
Until the National Enquirer got involved, society knew little of Woods personally. Barring an invited appearance at President Obama's inauguration festivities, Woods appeared apolitical. For all we know, Woods is as much of a Republican as every other PGA Tour player. Aside from some PR work done to explain the Tiger Woods Foundation and how it benefits less fortunate children, no one knew Tiger's opinions on social justice or another other moral issue. That's true of practically every other pro athlete, but because of Woods' fame, society projected values onto him. The European press has badgered Woods for years about his lack of a public social stance - much less action plan. Perhaps provoked by Earl Woods' predilections, they saw that his image was created by everyone except Tiger.
Here's the thing: Tiger Woods was whatever we wanted him to be. He could range from being a golfing hero to savior of society. Woods left that judgment call up to his fans. It worked extremely well for him as long as his personal life was well-guarded. He could not confirm nor deny the view of him. As Christ said in response to Pilate's questioning, "You say I am a king." (That's much more powerful that Eminem's lyrics.)
That was the mistake. It was not Woods' mistake - though he still employs this strategy to the detriment of his Q-rating. It was ours. Society took Tiger Woods, golfer, and turned him into Tiger Woods, everything. We did not do our due diligence unlike what Nike says they did before they signed him in 1996. That kind of investigating was not really possible provided the meticulous control that Woods' maintained over his friends, family, and life details. But no one cared to question the details. When the feelgoods are in our blood, we often do not give them a second thought. Apparently that was true for Woods as well - no second thought about his wife, his kids, his millions (maybe a billion), or his reputation. Or as The High Speed Scene sang so aptly in The IROC-Z Song, Woods let ego get in the way.
Effectively, Woods is no longer whatever we want him to be. He is us. Woods sweeps the bad stuff under the rug like any other human. He pleads with the keepers of his secrets to never tell anyone about them. Tiger cheats on his spouse, just like a whole lot of people. Woods did not beat this mortal coil. That is devastating to a lot of people.
For others, it might well be refreshing. It certainly must be for his golfing competition. The guy is human. He can lose focus. Tempers can flare. He can lose badly. In time, that may well be helpful for his public image if Woods takes charge of it and stops letting society decide for themselves how to think of him. Chuck Klosterman made a great point to Bill Simmons in saying, "Then people, in the long-term, would look back at this event as sort of when he actually turned the corner and became who he really was."
Then, maybe, Tiger Woods can teach society a pivotal lesson in a rather ironic twist on his original presentation. Woods can teach people to embrace themselves and their flaws, and still soldier on to brilliance.
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I don’t agree with your title…“Tiger Woods Did Not Dupe Us, We Duped Ourselves”…TW most certainly did dupe us, I take absolutely no responsibility for duping myself, although I admit I was shocked by the revelations of his infidelities. I remember vividly the New Zealand interview with TW just a few weeks before the infidelity revelations where TW literally duped us all by insisting that family was always first with him. And the media participated in this “dupe-job” as they had evidence of TW’s philandering a couple of years ago but agreed to suppress it if TW would do a cover feature on one of their sister publications.
But most egregious to me is your concluding paragraph…
“Then, maybe, Tiger Woods can teach society a pivotal lesson in a rather ironic twist on his original presentation. Woods can teach people to embrace themselves and their flaws, and still soldier on to brilliance.”
…Yes, society and people can learn lots of lessons from this TW scandal but certainly NOT to embrace their flaws and soldier on to brilliance! I admit my flaws and try my damnedest to correct those flaws. TW is a brilliant golfer, but he is a failure as a person, a father, and especially as a husband. I’m sorry, but TW can’t teach me any lessons.
Ryan,
You just posted this is the TigerWoods.com thread….5 days after I proved that you were wrong when you wrote the title of this article….evidently you’ve been sulking in shame and embarrassment for 5 days….sorry I ruined your Christmas.
“It’s funny because you didn’t prove that. Your argument in the other post proved that you really weren’t cynical or skeptical enough of the perfect image put forth by everyone invested in him. I really feel that so many people take what is presented to them at little more than face value and then they’re shocked when that turns out not to be true. There’s a responsibility on the consumer’s part to investigate.”
…to repeat, according to the definition of the word, “duped”(available in several posts in this thread), TW along with help from the media and the PGA tour players who knew about his philandering, duped us golf fans by saying that his family came first! Always!
Get over it Ryan, this will certainly not be your last mistake…learn how to accept criticism!
AMEN PADS!!!
I think the spin of the article will make anyone with half a brain sick to their stomachs…I defer to Niblic on this…He has it dead on…STUB
Niblic......Your comments are right on.
I suppose if someone considers Tiger a “hero”, then I can see where they could be duped. I neither need nor want a hero, especially someone like Tiger. As for his mistakes, they are HIS and only his. I’m not taking the blame for Tiger’s mistakes because I somehow believed in some of the crap we were fed. Tiger willingly made those mistakes and now he has to pay for those mistakes. Ryan, you said “he is us”…….he is not us! There is a big difference in having flaws and being a mass murderer. A single infidelity is a flaw….continued pre-meditated infidelities, continuous lying, and possible drug and gambling problems all indicate problems way beyond a “few flaws” that he can ignore and then “soldier on to brilliance”. At this point I see nothing I can learn from him other than how to be a real scumbag. He can hit a golf ball better than me, but, I’d have to say he’s a big failure in the really important aspects of his life.
You too Em66
My favorite line from a Christmas Movie,,,Christmas Vacation,,,,Clark W. Griswolds neighbor says to him from across the driveway. ""Hey Griswold, where do you think your gonna put a Christmas Tree that big ? And Griswold responds, "" Bend Over and I’ll show ya"" LOL No wait maybe that was tigers caddy Stevie that said that.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Hero..
I remember Jordan telling the world “Tiger Woods is my hero” Fantastic golfer, never in doubt, but never a hero to me. To many Americans, he came along in ‘96 after 10 years of European dominance in golf and gave them a lot to cheer for. We Europeans always admired his play, but I can never recall anyone having affection for him, like Jack or Arnie. Perhaps in this mega media age, he got so big he was out of reach. And Nike and co. that make millions off his back would never look at his flaws, there was too much money to be made. I get the feeling he was such a prolific winner he forgot how to lose with grace…even seperating himself from mere mortals. Tiger has taught us how not to behave and all the hype was just a money making machine. He had to play great golf to back it up of course. The so called fringe fans, if you like may feel duped, I’m just sad for his family and golf in general. Golf will recover quickly, it does not need Tiger…Nike does and the pro who plays for money and nothing else. But his children will never erase this from their life…it will always be there.
I think you're missing the point
It is true, the public didn’t know a darn thing about Tiger’s private life and they just assumed he was “as advertised”. It seems to me that quite a lot of you feel betrayed by Tiger, and perhaps that’s fair but it is in my view not completely reasonable to feel that way. What Tiger did should only effect his own family and his own life, not yours or mine. If it does, even on a small level, then you have way too much invested in a person you don’t know or have any real connection to. I’ve said this many times during this whole “saga” but I firmly believe it’s true; we’re making WAY too big of a deal out of this. President Clinton didn’t see this much outrage. Tiger’s just an athlete. And there are lessons to be learned here. Maybe not by you or me, but by Tiger. I say this to my son and the people who work for me all of the time: mistakes will happen but what’s most important is what you learn from them and what you do to correct them. This could indeed be a turning point in his life, in fact I would go as far as to say it should be a turning point in his life. Time will tell. In the mean time we’ll all keep watching golf and we’ll all keep arguing over Tiger; life goes on. I look forward to it.
Happy Holidays to all!!
Roll Tide !!
Tigerhead.....Tiger has not
betrayed me, but he has betrayed Golf. Now we are the NBA or NFL or MLB, thanks to the morally bankrupt Tiger. 60% or more of the country couldn’t stand Clinton, so a comparison to him is not relevant. Last week Tiger’s “high opinion of” rating had dropped from 88% to 5%, so I think there is more to this than you want to admit. Tiger chose this life and knew what went with it. I always thought he guarded his privacy to protect his family, but now we see he was covering for his sleazy affairs and maybe “other” things. By the way, I would feel the same way if it had been Phil. I hope you and your family have a great Christmas.
em66
60 % couldn’t stand Clinton at the time, but it’s mostly water under the bridge now. I actually think the Clinton comparison is very relevant in the sense that an athlete is catching more heat than the a President for the same kind of behavior. (That in itself says quite a lot about our society does it not). Anyway, time has a funny way of softening the blow of such things. The examples of this are endless, human nature I guess. I do get it em66, you and everybody else have the right to condemn him for it and there have always been plenty of reasons to dislike Tiger; now there are a few more. Just know that I am a fan of his golf and nothing more, which for me has always been the case.
I wish you and everyone else a career low round in 2010.
Roll Tide !!
Only in America, em66...
as you say, he has betrayed golf, but this perception (NBA,NFL,MLB etc) of golf is not the case outside the US. I also think it is to do with the Woods/Nike so called “golf is cool” in Tiger’s era, therefore temporary. The constant “the tour needsTiger” in hard times is a lie based on greed. No one I know plays Nike…all my local pros don’t stock the equipment. Golf is fine and I’m sure Tiger, for all his brillance on the course, is a very small part of golfs history. All the best, have a great day tomorrow.
Tigerhead,
Since it’s Christmas and all and I’m in a festive mood, I’m going to give you a chance to revise/explain your post, specifically you said…“I think you’re missing the point”. If not I promise to rip your idiotic post to shreds, which justice and fairness demands.
That's nice Holiday cheer you're spreading there niblic
I expressed my opinion and stand by it as it’s written. Feel free to disagree all you care to and call me an idiot to the fullest extent your festive mood allows. I do however sincerity wish you nothing but a wonderful and very merry Christmas.
Roll Tide !!
Does the word “lemming” sound familiar ? How about “caveat emptor”…“let the buyer beware” ?
How foolish do you have to be to buy into everything put out in the media ? From before day one of Woods’ pro career, we were bombarded with excess and hype that even Michael Jordan was never given. If people chose to believe all the garbage, that’s their own fault.
The same mentality of person who buys into all this nonsense also vote multiple times week in and week out on American Idol at 99 cents a pop.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Hello
Well I put all the TW fist pumping dolls on the Clearance Rack today. I tried to use them in the company Yankee Swap at the office party but nobody wanted them. LOL
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Tigerhead,
I miss very few points; your accusation that I missed the point is akin to calling me an idiot, which you so strenuously disagree with; but that’s OK with you, even when I ask you specifically to explain how I missed the point, because it’s OK for you to call me an idiot but when I rightly call your post, “idiotic”, then I am rude. Why do I even wonder that someone like yourself with such questionable morals would support Tiger Woods?
OK, you said, “It seems to me that quite a lot of you feel betrayed by Tiger”…DUH…only those with a brain should feel betrayed by Tiger! As I pointed out in my original post in this thread, Tiger flat out lied to the whole world when he did the NZ interview 2 weeks before the NE revealed the infidelity scandal. He lied, that is betraying our trust in him.
You further said, “What Tiger did should only effect his own family and his own life, not yours or mine.” I assume you meant “affect” and I agree that Tiger’s infidelities do not affect me or my family, but the lying about them definitely does affect me and every other golf fan.
You further said, “I’ve said this many times during this whole "saga" but I firmly believe it’s true; we’re making WAY too big of a deal out of this.”….and I couldn’t disagree more with you. Some people, like yourself and NIKE chairman Phil Knight, are making WAY too little out of this; Knight said and I paraphrase, that this whole scandal will just be a blip on the radar of Tiger’s career. BS….first of all, this scandal has nothing to do with Tiger’s golf career; he can win every major from now until he retires and that will still not erase the harm he did to his reputation as a husband, father, and a man.
I do agree with you and sincerely hope that Tiger does learn from these mistakes that he has made and changes his life for the better. But I would not expect that. He should have learned from his father’s cheating on his own mother. Tiger obviously idolized his father whereas I could not imagine idolizing my father if he cheated on my mother; I might be able to forgive him but only if he did the right thing to my mother. And Tiger should have learned to change his philandering ways when he married Elin; she knew about his philandering past and gave him a chance when she married him, and he betrayed that trust also. Finally Tiger was given another chance about 2-3 years ago when the gossip rag caught him philandering and agreed to suppress that information if Tiger would just do a cover story interview. How many chances can this guy squander?
Niblic
First, my comment was also to em66 and I was most certainly NOT calling him an idiot, or you. Those that are familiar with me know that name calling is not my style and I expect and enjoy a respectful debate. Secondly, Ryan’s point was indeed missed, at least it still seems that way to me. He was not blaming the public for Tiger’s mess, I think he was just pointing out the public being a bit naive in believing Tiger was living a squeaky clean life when we didn’t really know the first thing about him. (Correct me if I’m wrong Ryan). Missing a point doesn’t mean one is an idiot, especially with this type of communication, it’s actually extremely common. Third, you know less about me than you do Tiger, so I wouldn’t accuse me of having “such questionable morals”, unless you can point to where I have at ANY time condoned Tiger’s behavior. We do agree this has nothing to do with Tiger’s golf career and that is largely my ongoing point. Let me be clear, Tiger’s golf career is where my interest in him ends. How Tiger chooses to live his private life is none of my business and he has to deal with the consequences of his actions, not me. As I said to em66, there are plenty of reasons to not like Tiger, and now there is even a better reason; I 100% understand and appreciate that. Yes he’s a terrible husband and person, but that does not change the fact I respect his accomplishments on the course as one of the best players the game has ever seen. I do hope you have a joyful Holiday season and I wish you a bundle of long straight drives and low scores in 2010. Cheers!
Roll Tide !!
Slow down a bit..........
Doing some terrible things, and messing up your life are awful indeed, but to call another person a “terrible person”, well, is terrible. And, that’s where this story has hit a fork in the road. You see, many people have been dying for the man to fall/fail, and this “story” has been their oppurtunity to throw him to the wolves. In recap, a man cheated on his wife, and brought shame on himself, and embarassment to his family. These are indeed terrible deeds, but they are not uncommon, and they are not criminal. If sin, or a man’s vice make him a terrible person, then only one man in history has been righteous. The reasons people use to justify their jealousy for Tiger are thinly veiled excuses. Nick Faldo was despised in the locker room, and went through more than one wife. Did he cheat?? Freddy Couples has been through a few Women, Did he cheat?? The bloggers on this site some of whom have been married more than once. Did you cheat? This is all hogwash. A man cheats on his wife, and suddenly, morality invades Golf. Please. I’d rather the people who don’t like the guy just say “I DON’T LIKE THE GUY” . Is he a terrible person??? I’ll answer that question with a question. ARE YOU? And for the sake of conversation. All we know about any of these Golfers is Golf. Moving forward don’t be duped by any celebrity; because you don’t know them. People aren’t really disappointed by these events, no, they have been hoping and waiting for it. Duped? Please.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 24, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
F+G,
You’re starting to make me like Tigerhead. You say to call another person a “terrible person”, is terrible. I went back through this thread and I didn’t find anyone calling Tiger a “terrible person”. But you yourself said…“These are indeed terrible deeds”, referring to Tiger’s infidelities, so you could say that Tiger is a person who has committed terrible deeds. The word “terrible” is just an adjective modifying the word person (Tiger), just like the clause “who has committed terrible deeds” modifies the word person (Tiger). It’s the same thing!!!! When someone says Tiger is a terrible person, father, or husband in the context of these infidelities, they’re only talking about this context. It’s a fact that Tiger is also a very good person in some of the charitable endeavors he has accomplished through his foundation.
But we can say that you are a terrible person by virtue of some of your statements in this post. “. You see, many people have been dying for the man to fall/fail, and this "story" has been their oppurtunity to throw him to the wolves.”…“The reasons people use to justify their jealousy for Tiger are thinly veiled excuses.”…“People aren’t really disappointed by these events, no, they have been hoping and waiting for it. Duped? Please.” You can’t possibly know what other people feel in their hearts, and I am deeply offended by your arrogant know-it-all comments. I have already answered why I felt disappointted and duped by Tiger in my first post in this thread.
Arrogant know it all comments
tend to reflect your post to tigerhead, calling him idiotic and as it is Christmas, you are going to give him a chance to explain himself in a way you might understand. You say you are deeply offended by his “arrogant know it all comments”…I’d suggest looking down on someone by calling him an idiot smacks of the same thing. Happy new year.
Please do identify where I called Tigerhead an idiot? Yes, I gave him a chance to explain his remark where he said we missed the point and then never identified that point that we missed. He did finally identify that point, (a point not surprisingly that I had not missed in the first place), and I graciously accepted his explanation.
And “my deeply offended by your arrogant know-it-all” remark was directed at F&G, who on three occasions made remarks like as if he could discern what was in other peoples’ hearts. I make a lot of heartfelt comments here and it should be easy to pick out something which I say that is wrong or untrue. However, you have failed to do so….that says a lot about you and your ability to reason. Perhaps it’s time to give some more thought about God’s existence? Merry Christmas…may you accept that God came down from heaven and became Man today for your sake.
Opinions, are just that...
a point of view, the way one might see things. Easy to pick out what is right or wrong is irrelivant. I’m simply dissagreeing with you. As I don’t believe in God, i think I can reason quite well..we all make mistakes, we are human after all. Too many mistakes have been made in mans history in the name of god. But, I stress, this is only my opionon and you are welcome to yours. Cheers.
Easingwold,
Although we do disagree, ie. have different opinions, that is not what I’m objecting to with you. You alleged that I called Tigerhead an idiot and I asked you to identify just where because I did not, and you declined to answer that request of mine. But then after irrationally handling that request of mine, you come back and say…“i think I can reason quite well.” That is your problem, you have an untrue estimation of your powers to reason…it’s not just a difference of opinion; you have a problem with your powers of reasoning and like a recalcitrant, stubborn child, you desperately need to be told this truth.
For instance, your very next sentence…“Too many mistakes have been made in mans history in the name of god.”…first of all, I’m not talking about “god” who could be defined as…“any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature”…I’m talking about “God” defined as “the Supreme Being, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal, infinite…” Now I agree with you that too many mistakes have been made in man’s history in the name of God and/or gods, but that is man’s fault, not God’s. The fact that man makes mistakes, and of course, once again I agree with you that he does, has absolutely nothing to do with whether God exists or not. For you to not believe in God because men have made mistakes, and then call it an act of reason, is the most foolish thing I have ever heard.
Nibs, you referred to Tigerheads post as..
idiotic, then according to you, he was an idiot for posting it. So yes, you called him an idiot. As for our opinons being different, ie i do not believe in god or some kind of life after death, you call me foolish. Therefore, I am a fool. You, on the other hand, can believe what you choose and I would say that is your choice. See the difference ? No name calling, no arrogance. Once again, happy new year.
Eas,
Yep, you’re real rational, a great reasoner. You accuse me of calling Tigerhead an idiot, I prove that I did not and then change your position. Likewise, you accuse me of calling you foolish, once again my post will prove that I did not. See the difference? I deal in truth, you change the words to mean anything you want them to mean. Perhaps you are planning on doing the same thing with God when you meet Him? Good luck with that. And no arrogance on your part? Surely you’re kidding me? I can’t think of anything more arrogant than tiny little finite man looking out at the expanse of the universe and declaring that he knows that God does not exist. It’s truly sad that you don’t really know how very arrogant you are indeed! Happy New Year to you also!
Well, sorry Nibs,
but if you were in a bar and said to someone “you just made an idiotic statement” I don’t think he would buy you a drink. Cheers.
Well, that’s a horse of a different color then. If you’re buying then I’m drinking and you’re a genius! Cheers!
A Shandy(sp?). When I was in the Navy we pulled into Edinburgh(Silver Jubilee ’77) and we played a Scottish course and the oldtimers in the clubhouse at the 19th introduced us to this drink…fond memories! Cheers
Now you have my interest...
I was in the Royal Navy at the time, we were at Spithead at the Isle of Wight in ’77 for the Silver Jubilee…how I wished I played golf that early in my life ! Shandy is half a bitter and half lemonade…JD is the closest to a single malt you might enjoy….cheers !
What a coincidence….this seems like an easy promise for me but if you ever get to Vegas you are my guest for golf and drinks! Sorry jump’n/progolf, I didn’t make this offer to you but Easingwold would have to come halfway around the world to collect! And I owe some Brits a lot of favors for when I was a visitor there!
forget the difference in opinons..
we are entitled to that…I salute you…those were good times. Did you ever visit Portsmouth and go to Joannas nightclub in Southsea ? we met a few Americans there and the atmosphere was great. Great times.
Nope…but I made 2 later trips to London and southern England that have provided such pleasant memories….I am an incurable Anglophile
We too went to London....
did you berth alonside the Belfast ? There was a bar on board the old girl.
I was on an oiler….USS Milwaukee AOR-2…so we had to anchor out in the harbor and take small boats to shore.
I always found the difference between the US Navy’s prohibition policy and the Royal Navy’s alcohol tolerant policy to be interesting….we would have lots to discuss in person!
I hear you...
I seved on HMS Cleopatra and HMS Phoebe…we were allowed 3 cans of beer a day…but on my ships half the lads didn’t bother…so out of a mess of 25 12 of us had more than our share. When we were with NATO, we noticed Americans had coke…not the illegal kind… they loved coming on board for a few bevvies….cheers.
Easing/YourNibs
Tomorrow I shall play golf at HMS Southwick, (guest of Canadian Naval Captain – no less) then retire to The Golden Lion in Southwick village (where Ike and Monty planned D-Day landings).
I shall have half of HSB (shandy not my thing), and a couple of single malts, toast you both and good times at Joannas.
Happy New Year from Pompey (‘tho – shhhh – I’m a Saints supporter).
Em66 HA!
You resolutely refuse to explain to me how “Who Dat” came into use for your Saints, but as I’m feeling kind (I’ll toast you too if you let me know your poison in time)…………. My beloved Saints are Southampton (soccer) ’cos my Dad used to take me to see them when they played at home. I defected to The Gunners when I lived in London, but can never give up on the Saints of course.
Wendy, Wendy, Wendy.....I did
respond to your question, you must of missed it. It is a slang for “who’s that”, but as for it’s origins, just google who dat and you can find it. So, Go Saints!
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Merry Christmas Niblic......Now.
reference tigerheads last post with the heading “NIBLIC”, second to the last sentence. There is the aforementioned “terrible person” reference. I know tigerhead is a supporter of Tiger’s golf, and i know that he is disappointed at the event’s of the past month. Your taking offense to my comments does not bother me, and i won’t lash out at you. I was speaking to people in general, because i have been witnessed to many people’s loathing of tiger since ‘96. I have witnessed the US amateur dropped from the mantle of Major because (in my opinion) of Tiger’s three consecutive titles. I now even hear the phrase "he’ll never be adored like Jack and Arnie. Funny thing is i remember how badly the “true golf fans” treated Jack, because he started beating the favorite “Arnie”. I remember Jack having to deal with the fat jokes, and the insults for years. Now i have been witness to the same nonsense when it has come to Woods. Never mind the great Golf, the flair for the dramatic, the excitement, and the passion for the game, they both obviously share. Some people never were going to like, or accept Tiger period. Now along comes the “story” they have been waiting for, and voila’ ; all the nonsense has started again. What about the Golf People? I know it’s the off season, but what about all the great Golf the “man” has blessed us with for the past generation. Athlete of the decade……you’re darned right. Golfer of a generation…….no doubt……So i guess all people are left with is insults, and inuendo. Oh Niblic you won’t like me, because i don’t toe the company line. I am a golf fan for sure, but i don’t drink the kool-aid. Those who have been duped who are above the age of say 25, well that taste you are left with is Kool-aid, and that’s only your fault. This is my opinion, as yours is yours. We disagree.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 25, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
There it is again, now you’re siding with 3IRONS, he said the same thing as you said…“Those who have been duped who are above the age of say 25, well that taste you are left with is Kool-aid, and that’s only your fault” How in the world is that my fault? (I’m not going to waste much time responding to you; 3IRONS didn’t answer my question and you probably won’t either)
HO HO HO !!!
MEEEEEEERRY Christmas to all the waggleheads. HEEEEY """RYAN""" Ballengee, tonight is the Christmas party and I will try to remember to take a picture of the GOLF BALL TREE to send to ya. Depends on how many Barcardi’s I have. The good news is I can walk home. jumpn/progolf
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Tag vs Rolex
At the very beginning of his pro career, Tiger Woods’ first watch sponsor was Rolex who paid him about $1 million, mavbe more.He was assigned to push and promote the TUDOR brand watch, a lesser-priced product of Rolex.
I never saw a TUDOR ad, let alone a TUDOR ad that included Tiger Woods. I never saw a ROLEX ad along with Tiger Woods.
I think Bill will remember the TUDOR connection.
Don't worry, nothing will be allright.
Do you believe in fairy tales !
I can only speak to this, for myself , and have done so for several years,…but Tiger Woods only duped those who refused to accept the truth. He never , ever fooled me for a second, as I so often commented. That was enough to make me a hater, a racist and a moron in some circles,most notably his misinformed Tigermaniac fans. When you’ve been in the game long enough, experience will tell you when something smells,…and Woods just reeked of being disingenous and oozed this sense of entitlement. Classic clues unless your head was buried in the sand,…amd millions obviously were. To all those ‘suck-ups" I offer my condolences,….however, you really should have known better. After all, we’ve seen this type of behavior from many high profile athletes before. Stop believing what the press passes off as fact, and try using your intelligence. Merry Christmas to all …….Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
Oh, i just thought.......
Oh okay, I was wrong about you. I just thought you were an aspiring Golf Pro, who hit the golfing ceiling, and developed a case of over-blown jealousy. It always appeared to me that you ignored many of the other pros and concentrated on this one guys ills. While all the while ignoring his skills. And being that he was by far and away the best golfer, just made me think that you were indeed a jealous-hearted hater. But now your thoughtful post which oozes of all the things i’ve spoken of confirms it for me. You couldn’t cut it, so you developed a jealous streak for the worlds finest golfer. We’ve seen this behavior from people in all walks of life. High profile has nothing to do with it. Here’s the truth about Tiger. He is the best golfer alive. All of the fame came with it, and now all of the shame has also. Does not diminish the fact that he is the Best Golfer Alive. Did you smell that when you were sniffing around? Didn’t think so. The people who really are fixated with Tiger are the ones who hate his guts. “the haters”. Fixate on the record books for a minute, and you’ll see they are laced with his name. Or is that just another Fairy Tale. Please!
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 24, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
F&G's
I always said TW was a great player, but a very poor professional and a phony. On those points I ;ve never waivered. The mediia’s constant bombardment about all things Woods convinced most that this guy was the “real deal”. In fact, he’s not . Arnold or Jack or Mickelson are “true” professionals. Dedicated and true to their craft. Woods was a fraud and he struck me me as odd from the get go. Many professionals felt the same way but said nothing. Recently Helen Alfredsson spoke openly and candidly about Woods. Her thoughts are shared by many, but never reported by the press. People who spent time with Woods always had the feeling that something was amiss. The press however, wouldn’t hear of it. Given the millions Nike spent on advertising in this medium, I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised. Soooo, yes,..great player, but a terrible person and a piss poor professional. I trust that clarifies my disgust for Woods as a professional. He has alway embarassed the profession with his arrogance and sense of entitlement. He’ll never be a Nicklaus or a Palmer no matter how much he wins. The truth is out,finally. Live with it as you were told years ago about who and what TW was/is.
you're still away,...choke on it !
Fraud????
Was his Golf fraudulent?? Were all the records, and all the shots fraudulent? You guys can’t accept the pure facts. This man can flat out Golf his ball. Recently many people have spoken openly about Woods. None of them can ever say that he can’t move the ball around the hallowed acreage though. What i’m saying is this; because of the fact the man has lapped the field for an unheard of 13 years many “haters” have surfaced to say he’s “cheap”, and he’s a “phony”, and whatever……..You and the Helen Alfredsson’s of the World have missed out on the main thing the man is……..A Golfer. He’s not a diplomat, Mickelson has been called a Phony by his fellow golfers, and not behind the scenes. I read an article in Golf Digest by Stuart Appleby: Where he stated that “most” of the players on tour consider Phil a Phony. Guess what? Who cares. Phil can flat Golf his ball. They don’t play the game of popularity. This is Golf. Hogan played Golf. Not smile and joke. Was he professional You can’t pick a few examples out of your arse, and state them as definitive fact. The Truth is this. To the Golf fan, all you’ll ever really know is this. Who won. I don’t know any of these guys (really), and neither do 99.9% of us. Who won?? Not who smiled. Not who waved. Who won?? 72 holes leaves no room for frauds. Who won? For 13 years i know who won 30% of the time.. Nike didn’t manufacture the wins. As a “professional golfer” Tiger has only one peer, and that’s Jack. Arnie was never the Golfer either of those men were. He’s not in the golfing discussion. Ambassador no doubt, golfer, not so much. Blame the tour for kissing his butt, blame television, blame the players for fearing him. These are all facts, but as a “professional” golfer. Well where is the fraud in his play? All you have spoken to is social girly nonsense. Speak to the Golf for once. And Please don’t use Helen Alfredsson as your source. What?? Oh, Merry Christmas!
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 25, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
3irons,
You said…“Tiger Woods only duped those who refused to accept the truth.” What truth did I refuse to accept? I would like an answer to that question.
As I understand from your posts here and at TGC, you were/are a peripheral part of the PGA tour and as such, you had more information about Tiger than regular fans like me and most other posters here. It is a matter of fact that the main stream media suppressed the truth about Tiger’s infidelities, and that several/many PGA players also knew about Tiger’s infidelities but they also remained quiet about them. I’ve said several times in this thread that Tiger looked right into the camera and lied to all of us by saying that to him, family always came first! So how are we, his fans, responsible for refusing to accept the truth?
nibs
I tried to post what Woods was really like, but was ridiculed as a hater and a racist. I did pass along, to those who were interested, what my experiences had revealed to me about Woods. Most simply dismissed it as jealousy. Well, I can assure you that I’d never have changed places with Woods then, and most certainly not now.
you're still away,...choke on it !
I’m still not following how you became the expert on what the man is “really like.” How much time did you get to spend side by side with him ? Dinners ? Visits to his home ? A little skiing behind the yacht ? A trip to Vegas in the plane ?
are you also saying that changing places with Tiger would have changed who you are and caused you to behave the way he did ? if it is – then it’s the environment and not the choices he made that put him in this situation.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
court
I spent some time “inside the ropes” with TW and in the locker room. He most assuredly isn’t a fella whose company I’d prefer. Maybe he feels the same way, I dunno. Maybe because he always had to look up to address me (I’m 6’5")that bothered him, LMAO, I really don’t know. It was like he had no personality, if that makes sense. A real strange dude. I can assure you that my faith and my family have always had me solidly grounded in reality, and as I said, I ‘d never change places with anybody …not even Woods. The media are nothing but whores and most are repulsive boors. My strength is in my beliefs and my convictions and the media could never dupe me into abandoning those. NEVER. Tiger obviously is not this “iron willed” superman that the media created. I’d say he’s just the opposite. Weak of mind, spirit and flesh. My advice to TW would be to seek spiritual counceling. It would be a start to his emotional healing,..IMO………Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
Ok – got it – locker room time…I’m assuming this is tournament week locker room time ? Game face on…the “you don’t seriously think you can beat me, do you” game face ? The “careful what you say because the media vultures are hoping to catch a stray syllable to blow out of proportion” locker room time ? People aren’t their usual selves during that time – I’m sure you know that very well with your own experience.
I see where your thoughts are coming from – and you have to admit that human weakness is nothing new – even among the people who seem to be, or should be, the most “spiritually” led.
The problem comes in when people, led by a hype-oriented media, try to extrapolate someone’s on course abilities to their regular life. Nobody can argue that between the ropes, there is nobody with a stronger mental game than Tiger Woods – but that doesn’t mean he is just as disciplined and focused away from the course. (personally, I don’t think anybody could be without their brain melting)
Is it possible that he has gotten bored with winning with such seeming relative ease for the first 10 years of his career that he had to go somewhere else for that “rush” he was used to the first part of his career ? Is it possible that Elin’s personality had something to do with it – especially with the addition of kids ?
I’m not making excuses for the guy – what he did was wrong – I’m just saying that he isn’t evil incarnate. Everybody has a breaking point.
And don’t try to tell us that you have never thought about your life with the addition of a few hundred million dollars in the bank…we ALL have. But he has had the addition of a relentless media trying to pick him apart for 13 years. Even Bill Gates doesn’t get the same kind of attention. :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Court
Locker room, players meetings and every once in awhile a pro-am when they could coddle him into playin’ one. (He hates pro-ams, but they help pay the bills) He was just odd to me. Plus in those days he hardly ever interacted with the fans, unless it was to bitch at one. Generally speaking he was a bit of a prick to most players. Still cannot figure out why. Maybe he was a bit of an introvert and being thrust into the spotlight made him uncomfortable. I cannot say. As for being mentally tough, there are many tougher than TW. However, there are few anywhere near his talent. Winning a US Open as Corey Pavin did against all odds, that’s mentally tough. Being the “Bull Terrier” in Ryder Cup matches was also pretty damn impressive for a guy with Pavin’s talent. There are others, but you get my point. Still, TW’s record is second only to Jack, but his “bedside manner” is more like Ryan Leaf. He comes up very short as a complete professional, and IMO, as a man. In many ways, he’s still a kid. Would I like all those zero’s showing in my bank account ????……not if I had to do it TW’s way……Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
I would love all those zero's, but.....
I sure as heck wouldn’t want that kind of fame. 3irons once asked me if I would trade places with Tiger professionally and I said, you bet your a_s I would. But after seeing all of this, I can now say I was wrong about that. Tiger has to deal with a level of fame that NO other golfer has to or has EVER had to, and now it will be even worse. Tiger has to deal with things no other player has to deal with and yet he still wins 30% of the events he plays. That speaks to tremendous mental strength, (at least as it pertains to the sport). Just the expectations alone are bordering on the insane; if he goes 3 events without winning, somethings wrong with him and he’s in a slump. Everybody who’s ever picked up a club understands that it’s easier to play good golf when your expectations are lowered. Again, that speaks to tremendous on course mental strength. Nobody, and I mean nobody wins 14 majors without a very strong mental game no matter how talented they are; just ask Phil or Sergio if you don’t believe me. Or for that matter ask Jack, he’s commented on Tiger’s mental strength many times, and I’ll take his word over 3irons any day (no offense intended). Yes, we now know a few things about Tiger’s personal life and that he’s been a very bad husband. But he’s still the man on the course. Now he has a new and greater mental test, one that I believe he’ll pass with flying colors.
Roll Tide !!
I would argue the hundreds of fans that follow...
Tiger on the course is to his advantage. His playing partners don’t deal with that often, unless they are paired with him. He deals with it all the time, to him, it is normal on course. After the last few weeks, that could change of course.
Not if you had to do it TW’s way ? As in winning golf tournaments and signing endorsement contracts and doing commercials and making some business appearances ? Once again – it’s not HOW or what he had to do to earn the money – it’s the way he has spent his time away from the course that has gotten him in trouble.
One thing Tiger Woods has never denied being is a little weird and definitely “nerdy”.
Agree with you on Pavin – the guy did more with smaller physical talents than almost anybody ever…but he played smart and to his strengths…and he had amazing short game talents. But he wasn’t a target the way Woods has been. Woods is a media target – and a target for a lot of players who want to take him down. It takes incredible mental and emotional abilities to win at the clip he has for 13 years. Pavin popped up a few times a year in contention – won a few – and had a lot of finishes – but winning is a lot harder than finishing in the top 10.
No argument on Woods’ personality and “social skills” with the media and fans. It would be GREAT if he could spend all kinds of time answering every question and request from the media…and it would be GREAT if he could appease every business that wanted a piece of him…and it would be GREAT if he could spend hours giving himself writers cramp signing autographs…but there isn’t time in the day to do all of those things. He has to stay away from autograph lines at tournaments because organizers are afraid of the crush of fans that are always around the guy. HE has been injured a few times by people stepping into his path…and they don’t want someone to get hurt in the crowd trying to get an autograph.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Gary Player, I would say...
got more from himself than any pro…and he had to do it abroad…not the easy way on his doorstep.
Not true !!
Gary Player has never been accused of cross-dressing !!! Oh wait…“abroad”…..not “a broad”…..Nevermind….
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
3IRONS,
Is that supposed to be the answer to my question…“Tiger Woods only duped those who refused to accept the truth." What truth did I refuse to accept?” So I refused to accept the “truth”, defined by you as your posts at TGC? What if I had not read those posts? Would I then be able to say that I was duped by TW? I’m just trying to get you to realize and admit that you made a stupid statement, ie. “Tiger Woods only duped those who refused to accept the truth”. Now I admit to reading some of your posts at TGC over the past couple of years; but I will go on record here right now as betting you a thousand dollars to a donut that you did NOT ever post anything about TW’s multiple infidelities!!!! So in other words you were duped also! You’re like the schoolyard smartass who always knows everything, we’ve all known and despised people like you, when told something incredible and unknown for the first time, you always reply, “well, I knew that all along”. O really, then why didn’t you say something before it was just revealed?
And no need to assure me that you wouldn’t change places with Woods then or now because I never asked or suggested that.
3 irons...got the clubs ...
now just need the snow to clear before I catch the light on the cieling, lol.
Easy Rider
Hope you hit them well, mate. Best wishes for a great 2010 on and off the course…..Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
Fight of the Century !!
Ya know I spent 11 years of my life in the boxing ring and fought some pretty tough battles, but the one I just spent twenty minutes reading was pretty damn good un to itself as it had all the elements of a boxing match. * Hard Punches, * Superb Counter Punching, * Low Blows and a little bit of the, * Sweet Science, thrown in for good measure. And like with any good boxing match the opponents remain good aquaintences afterwards ( at least I hope so ). 3 irons is correct in saying he has never wavered from his position about TW. Though some may not agree with it, he has the right to his opinion as we all do. The very idea that someone should be called a racist or a hater just because they won’t jump on the drooling band wagon is just rediculous. F&G’s I am a “ReaL Golf Fan” who not only has played the game for the past 42 years but has been associated with the golf industry for the past 26. I attend 14 tournaments a year and many associated events as well and I take great offence to the notion that if I don’t fawn over Mr. Woods the way the media leads people to believe they should that somehow that disqualifies me as a Real Golf Fan. Gimmee a break I for one never had an issue with TW ON the golf course or any player for that matter as I watch for the game itself and the drama we all look forward to seeing week after week. Duped ??? Not me
gang as I am a fan of the game. What I have always had an issue with was the media shoving Tiger down our collective throats week after week, making it difficult to watch the game I so enjoy when we were forced to watched tiger 60 percent of the time while the other players shared the other 40%. Thats where I think the duping somewhat comes in to play as the media understands that the Fringe Fans only watch on the weekends when Tiger is in the field and now, O’h My, what are they to do now without Tiger ? The PGA would have a much bigger fan base overall if for the past 10 years or so promoted the Tour as a whole and not have focused on one Golden Goose. In our world history the “Eggs In One Basket” philosophy never worked out for any industry that I know of. I for one am looking forward to Jan. 7th in Kapalua with 29 great players in the field and equal coverage for all and if that type of coverage continues thoughout the season then I will be a very happy “Golf Fan”…..jumpn/progolf PS, It’s the day after Christmas and I’m at home enjoying some refreshing Koolaid. It’s good for the Sole.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
jump’n/progolf,
Why do you say…“Duped ??? Not me”? Did you know or believe before this Thanksgiving, that TW was a philandering cheater? If you did not, then you were duped. Why is it so difficult for people to admit that? It’s not like it’s your fault or anything…you and I and millions of other golf fans were DUPED by TW and a participatory PGA Tour and Media.
Niblic Nope
Didn’t know, don’t really care either. Thats the beauty of being a Golf Fan, rather than a fringe fan. I have tons of great golf to look forward to in 2010 and the TW fringe element of fans has only hope to look forward to so far. I’ll let you know when I’ll be in Vegas so we can golf our ball and solve all the worlds problems on the 19th hole…jumpn/progolf
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
“Didn’t know, don’t really care either.”
Duh, then you were duped, just like the rest of us. Yeah, you didn’t care….that’s why you’ve made some hundreds of posts about this topic over the last 3 weeks, lol.
Let me know when you’re in Vegas…I’m sorta a fair weather golfer these days…it’s got to get to about 60 degrees for me to play(maybe 55)
We were duped...
I can admit it. But I was NOT in anyway shocked to learn a young good looking billionaire athlete has trouble keeping it in is his pants. And yes we all care about this to some degree or we wouldn’t be yapping about it as we do. I would argue that we care way too much about it as it’s remains none of our business. No we know, so let private matters remain that way, and let’s get on with the golf.
Roll Tide !!
Niblic......As I have read the comments
on this tread, I have come to the conclusion that there is some confusion. You’re original post said it all. I believe we have all been “duped”, but unlike the article title, I don’t beieve we all duped ourselves. Tiger and Team Tiger spent an incredible amount of time and resouces to convince us all that Tiger was this near perfect person and we all bought into it in varying degrees. I would venture to say the suck-ups and fringe fans swallowed it hook, line and sinker, and at the opposite end those “haters”(lol) were not quite as surprised at the events as they unfolded. Most of us fall somewhere in between. I have to say that I agree with most of your comments and I am envious of your ability to articulate your thoughts as you do.
Jumpn……I too am looking forward to golf, but I won’t be watching TW. Just seeing him on ESPN makes me sick.
I agree 100% with that...
eggs in one basket never works in the long run. Just shows they were after a fast profit…a reflection on our banking industry perhaps ?
Mickey: Left handed fighters they’re the worst. They try to come in there with that big left. Right’s no damn good. They ought to outlaw southpaws!
Rocky Balboa: Why didn’t you tell me that before?
Mickey: I didn’t want to hurt your feelings.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
A good way to judge anyone...
though the bull is to watch how he treats someone who might seem insignificant. Like helping an old lady across the road. Caring about the fans that make one popular. I never saw Tiger once give fans a second glance here at the Open in Britain or on TV unless he was mad at them for moving about during a shot. maybe someone can tell me otherwise.
Easy Rider
Very astute observation mate. Dead on the money. Listen gang, Woods was/is a tremendous talent on the course. But there is one hell of a difference between being a great player and a great professional. When I say Woods always struck me as a phony, it had more to do with his lack of professionalism and personality, than his playing ability. His records are real,…but as a man he is an entitled phony and a pompous ass. Even if he wins 20 majors, he will never be the professional that Arnold or Gary or Jack were, and still are. He is not a complete professional and I sensed that from the times I was around him. He is one dimensional, and very good at that. I think we all know what his lack of personal skills has cost him. How to Raise a Tiger ,….indeed. Wonder if that collection of garbage is on Oprah’s book list. LMAO. His divorce will put him through the meat grinder to the tune of hundreds of millions of $$$. That and the loss of his kids will haunt him forever. You can bet the paparazi will never let up on him either. So, for all of us who genuinely love the game, …thanks Tiger, for bringing it down to the tabloid trash level. Well done. How anyone can root for this bum, is simply beyond my capabilities. Adios,………Z.
you're still away,...choke on it !
Tiger has done nothing to the game
He brought himself down to tabloid trash, not the game. To say otherwise would be to say he is larger than the game or that he IS the game. The game is still there exactly the same as it was. I’m still gonna watch it just as much as before and I’m sure as heck gonna still play it just as much as before. And I’ll tell you this, if people stop rooting for athletes that lead questionable private lives then we may as well take all sports off the air completely. This notion that because somebody is a professional golfer means they are somehow “better” than the rest of us, or they are “above” human temptation is absurd. He’s a man, he is flawed, he makes mistakes; being a golfer has nothing to do with those facts. Do you really think Tiger is the first to do this? Do you really think he’ll be the last? He let his family down, not the public. This is simply not relevant to his golf and it, for the most part, changes nothing. Those such as yourself will continue to beat him up over it, (but you were already doing that before), and almost all that were fans before will move past it and continue to support him. This shows that he is human and that he is real. In fact if he learns from it and takes this opportunity to grow and change his ways, he will end up drawing in even more fans and respect than he had before all of this. Time will tell, but in the mean time the game is still there and I’m still a fan.
Roll Tide !!
Tigerhead......I know you are a Tiger fan, but
very little in your post makes sense to me. Do you really think your comparisons to “others” really matters……if Tiger were 60th or 130th in the world, do you think anyone would care?? Come on, get real. Tiger is the best out there, “Athlete of the Decade”, the man who will beat Jacks records…..etc. etc. He is NOT just any other athlete. You seem to have no trouble separating Tiger the golfer from Tiger the man….congrats, but I can’t do that. I have told you many times that my problems with Tiger came from media overhype and of course the “suck-ups”. Now listen closely…..The only thing that allowed me to watch Tiger was the fact he was a great family man and he had all together…..he was an arrogant, self centered golfer, but away from the course he was ok……and I could live with that. But now he is just a scumbag……just like all the other scumbags you refer to….no different from the tattooed up trash in the NBA and NFL. I can watch them because my expectations of them is so low, but I had higher expectations for Tiger….and now he ruined his image and has tarnished golf….how stupid can he be…..what a waste.
And you're entitled to that view...
If that’s how you feel, then there are plenty of these 60 to 130th ranked players for you to follow and give your respect to. That is completely fine by me and I understand why. I think you hit on the difference between how you and I feel about this; that being I can indeed easily separate the golfer from the rest of it. Why should I care how he lives his life? I don’t know him, I don’t know his family, and he’s not an elected official, just a professional golfer. I respect your view and I’m not saying it’s wrong to feel that way, just pointing out there is another way of looking at this that also has plenty of merit. Golf will be fine, Tiger will be fine, and all of us will be fine.
Roll Tide !!
tigerhead,
You said…" I can indeed easily separate the golfer from the rest of it.“…and…Why should I care how he lives his life?”…and….“just pointing out there is another way of looking at this that also has plenty of merit”.
We also(em66 and myself and others who feel the same way as we do) can easily separate Tiger the golfer from Tiger the cheating philanderer, that is no difference between you and us. Why should you care? That’s pretty obvious, and you’ve got 2 advanced degrees so we’ll let you figure that out for yourself. Suffice it to say, what if everyone did what Tiger did? All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Do illuminate us here exactly what the plenty of merit there is in accepting/condoning this evil behavior of Tiger’s?
Ok wait a minute
For the record I do not accept or condone Tiger’s behavior. I am also disappointed to learn he is something that I didn’t think he was. But I am no more disappointed about this then I would be to learn about a neighbor up the street doing the same thing, or any other celebrity. There is however merit in a view that simply acknowledges the mans proffessional life from his private life and I stand firmly by that view. This has nothing to do with golf, we seem to agree on that point and that’s really all I’m saying.
Roll Tide !!
For all your advanced degrees, you don’t seem to have a grasp of our language. I knew that you did not accept or condone Tiger’s behavior(how could I not, you’ve said it umpteen times in this forum). But yet you want us to believe that your question….“Why should I care how he lives his life?”…is a serious question? Why should you care how Tiger lives his life? Because what he’s doing, by your own admission, is WRONG!!!!! I’m assuming from your post that you would be disappointted if your neighbor/friend up the street was philandering, so then you admit that you are then disapointted about Tiger doing the same thing(hey, we’re getting someplace now)
You said…“There is however merit in a view that simply acknowledges the mans proffessional life from his private life”…but you never illuminated exactly what that merit is, as I specifically asked. Which is just another way of saying NOTHING….but you stand firmly behind that view…LOL.
The merit
Is in the his fundamental right to privacy. It also lies in the fact in something you have agreed with me on; that this has nothing to do with his golf career. Therefore, I can form an opinion based on that separation. If people want to mix the two together that is fair enough for me, but I disagree and can pull for him as a golfer despite his failures off the course.
Roll Tide !!
I agree, Tiger has a right to privacy just like any of us. Unfortunately for Tiger, his actions did not occur in private, but rather in public. I see no merit in that…would you like to try again?
We do agree that this has nothing to do with Tiger’s golf game and you are certainly free to root for him all you want, just like I am free to root against him. Cheers!
Let down
Tigerhead, you said " He let his family down and not the public. I think he let a certain percentage of the Public Down by lying on national TV saying that his family will always come first and we now that statement wasn’t true as it was said during a time when he was running around with multiples of woman. He also lied to his adoring fans by saying that all the allegations were false and never happened at all and now they know that wasn’t true either. Perhaps there are other misgivings as well but for me it does not matter as I am a Golf Fan jumpn/progolf
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
I can agree he
But for the record, he never said the allegations about his affairs were false, he only said the allegations about Elin attacking him were false. Go back and read his statement. He even acknowledges that he was responsible for “something” and to me it was pretty clear that was more than a car accident. He at least stood up for his wife, and that part is respectable.
Roll Tide !!
Not defending, just
pointing out what was in the content of his first few statements. They were obviously very carefully written. Yes, they were vague, but as far as I can tell, he didn’t lie.
Roll Tide !!
WOW….UFB….your carefully written and vague would be disingenuous and deceitful to the reasonable person. You certainly can’t tell very far if you can’t tell that he lied!
Un_______believable!!!!! We argued this in real time as it happened, you really don’t want to go through this again do you? Here’s his first statement…
“11/29/2009
Statement from Tiger Woods
By Tiger Woods
AP
As you all know, I had a single-car accident earlier this week, and sustained some injuries. I have some cuts, bruising and right now I’m pretty sore.
This situation is my fault, and it’s obviously embarrassing to my family and me. I’m human and I’m not perfect. I will certainly make sure this doesn’t happen again.
This is a private matter and I want to keep it that way. Although I understand there is curiosity," the many false, unfounded and malicious rumors that are currently circulating about my family and me are irresponsible."
The only person responsible for the accident is me. My wife, Elin, acted courageously when she saw I was hurt and in trouble. She was the first person to help me. Any other assertion is absolutely false.
This incident has been stressful and very difficult for Elin, our family and me. I appreciate all the concern and well wishes that we have received. But, I would also ask for some understanding that my family and I deserve some privacy no matter how intrusive some people can be.
…the part in parentheses is a LIE!!!!!!
Ok....
I can see why the part you put in question marks is thought of as a lie, so I will agree with you there. I stand corrected and have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. My apology jumpn. I guess he didn’t “legally lie”, which is something quite a bit different. The statement was clearly written with strong legal counsel involvement. He also says, that he needs to make sure “it” doesn’t happen again. It is clear and was clear then that “it” was something more then the car accident so he does take a measure of responsibility and does defend Elin.
Roll Tide !!
Very impressive post….you and Easingwold are shaking me to my roots….Thank God for F&G so I still have someone to argue with!
You're joking right??
Has Golf become a soap opera?? Do we watch golf because the combatants are good Husbands?? Do i care if Faldo was divorced more than once. What about Monty?? What about Freddy Couples. This stuff sounds like sniveling sissyness. Watch golf gentlemen, watch golf tournaments. Cheer on your guy. I have never heard a grown man (until now) say he can’t watch another grown man compete in sports because he cheated on his wife.. I mean you POPE’S in waiting are just killing me. I noticed the reference to the NFL, and NBA. What about the criminals playing in the NHL. What about the cheating in cycling, and the Mess in Tennis. What about all the nonsense in the world of soccer. All you see is the "tattooed up trash in the NBA, and NFL? How do grown men get duped by athlete’s?? I thought he was a great family man?? Quit crying, and enjoy golf. You don’t know about any of these guys. I’m going to invest some money in Kleenex after this post, because i have not heard a bunch of MEN crying like this in a long time. “i’m not going to watch tiger because i can’t stand him” I mean really?? Here’s what’s going to happen, you guys will watch Tiger if he returns, because you have a burning desire for him to fail. You had the desire way back in ‘96, and you have it today. This same group of “fans” didn’t want to see Nicklaus surpass Palmer. Tiger just takes it to another level, because of other social (problems) Jack was just the fat kid, whereas Tiger has some other adjectives to describe him. Still, let’s get it straight. “scumbags” are not limited to the NFL, and NBA. Golf has plenty of bad guys playing. Duped?? I’m still lost. He’s a golfer, that’s all he ever was, and all he ever will be. He’s not a statesmen, and he’s not a diplomat. He is not in the clergy, and he’s not a public servant. Tiger Woods is a golfer. His real crime is that he has beaten the you know what out of the fair haired golfing establishment for the last thirteen years, and he has done so with dogged determination, and a steely presence, which hasn’t set to well with you very emotional and sensitive “true golf fans” Well he’s on leave now, so you guys can dry your eyes, and move on. When he returns don’t watch. Don’t want to hurt any of your feelings watching the arrogant, cheater. Don’t want you wasting your time on someone who doesn’t make second eye contact with you. Instead enjoy mediocre golf, and tournaments won by “he got hot at the right time golfers” Enjoy the I won this week and missed the cut next week “pros”. Don’t sit waiting for the Great Golf you’ve witnessed the last 13 years… You don’t want great golf anyway. Watch the “image” friendly golf you want. Funny how “image” is the prefix to imagine. Since you don’t know who any of these guys are except for an imaginary image. Duped!! If you were duped, it’s because you are easily mis-lead, and prone to falling for an image. Even worse, if you watch sportsmen only because they are these perfect personas, then you are sadly mistaken. Duped?? I just don’t get it. 66er. I am officially “Clueless”
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions
F's and G's....I'm glad it's official...
Obviously you don’t get it, but I’m glad you admit it. I would agree with most of what you say if Tiger WERE just a golfer, but he’s more than that and you know it. He is the best golfer since Nicklaus, he is also the most successfully marketed athlete ever and he has portrayed himself as this wonderful family man. If you had read my post, I said I do watch the other athletes, but my expectations of them is low, so it is difficult for them to disappoint me. We all (except you) had very high expectations of Tiger, the man, and he failed miserably……that is why there is so much interest in his great moral failure. You guys keep comparing him to all the others, but Tiger is supposed to be beyond comparison…..on a different level than all the others. You don’t get it……and I don’t get your position……so I guess we’re both clueless.
F&G,
You said…"I have never heard a grown man (until now) say he can’t watch another grown man compete in sports because he cheated on his wife.. “…No one said that, 3IRONS said he couldn’t root for him, And it seems to me that the only ones crying here are you and Tigerhead. And again you impugn our motives, we don’t dislike Tiger because he’s a cheating philanderer, o no, we dislike him because, according to you…”His real crime is that he has beaten the you know what out of the fair haired golfing establishment for the last thirteen years,", the implied meaning is that we’re all racists if we dare to dislike Tiger. Well, that makes you Janaene Garofalo in my estimation and a worse insult I could not hurl at you!
And concerning your “Duped?” comments, I asked you the same question yesterday and you ignored it, but here it is again for you to ignore(you’re an intellectual coward!)…
“There it is again, now you’re siding with 3IRONS, he said the same thing as you said…"Those who have been duped who are above the age of say 25, well that taste you are left with is Kool-aid, and that’s only your fault" How in the world is that my fault? (I’m not going to waste much time responding to you; 3IRONS didn’t answer my question and you probably won’t either)”
Reverse that...
TW’s presence has made a lot of “fringe” golfers millionaires. I think he has hurt the game in this regard. You can make a lot of money playing less than stellar golf. You can have one hot week and you’re set for the year. How can golf fans accept the fact that these “good” guys wilt under the pressure time and time again. How can we cheer on guys who fall apart on Sunday time and again. I think we have all been duped by the golfers who obviously haven’t been working on their games, and their mindsets, in order to prepare for major championships. We have been duped by golfers who cash these large checks, and then check out. I see guys win majors, and then just do endorsement deals, the talk show circuit, and play lousy the rest of the year. I feel duped by golfers who win a tournament, then change equipment because one of the manufacturers throws some money at them. I feel duped by guys not maximizing their talent, because of money. Oh, i have been duped by Golfers not getting the most out of their talent. In Golf this is the only way i feel duped. “these guys are good”, but they are also spoiled, lazy, weak-minded, premadonnas. Yes, i feel duped, but it’s by On course behavior not what happens off-course. Which is why i don’t watch Major League baseball, Professional cycling, Track % Field, and the likes. We have all been duped by people performing under falsely devised means. These are the frauds which spoil sport. Not a guy cheating on his wife. I felt duped by Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, and most of the steroid era athletes in many sports. Who performed under false pretenses. I stand by this anyway. You guys will watch Tiger when he returns, because you want to see him fail.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions
F's and G's.........My condolences......
you would seem to be the most “duped” person on the planet…..lol
F&G,
Perhaps a dictionary visit would be appropriate for you….DUPED…
“transitive verb duped, duping dup′·ing
to deceive by trickery; fool or cheat
….Tiger duped us all. You’re an idot to dispute this simple premise!
I think a lot of the views...
are because golf ( in which Tiger is part of) is above other sports, in that we call the foul shot on ourselves. There is a tremendous honour in that and I believe that is what seperates us from other sports. I’m proud that I am part of it, albeit in a small way. When I play a Open championship course, I feel like I am as part of the game as any of the greats. And I am also bound by those same rules. I would say when Tiger lied to the cameras about “family comes first” most of us looked at it as if he broke the rules of golf. But, of course, the rules of golf do not apply to real life, do they ? It would be a better world if it did…cheers !
Well said Easing
I think that’s really the center of this debate; do you believe his private life is mixed together with his golfing life? Some think that Tiger has done something negative to the game, but I argue that he’s only cast a negative light on himself pertaining to his private life. We can still enjoy his talent for the game and accomplishments on the course while we disapprove of how he chooses to live his life. I just see it as two very different things.
Roll Tide !!
I think that about sums up this whole debate...
I for one have enjoyed this one, I love a debate, cheers, Nibs and Tigerhead..and everyone else who puts up with my gob, lol…I think this place is a good one and we all have a point of view…one thing should be clear…we all care about golf and that is all that matters in the long run.
Indeed Easing
At least this whole thing has given us something to yap about in the off season..lol
Roll Tide !!
Best off seaon I have known
for years, lol. I have always thought, the more I find out, the less I know…as the song goes…I like a debate because I realise I need a kick up the jacksie, lol.
Ok, can anybody tell me
how to put that “Roll Tide” thing on my profile???? Oh, by the way…..Bama Sucks!! lol
Don't spoil my fun em66
It’s been a VERY long time since Bama had much to cheer about :) Go to “edit profile” and add a signature statement.
Roll Tide !!
Ok, Ok, It's not Bama so much
as Saban…….Just remember he’ll leave you guys first chance he gets.
Who Dat Who Dat.....Say dey gonna beat dem Saints!!!!
Not Duped in the least
Not Me !!!! The only people that got duped are those that depended on TW for their weekend fix. I will continue to watch with or without TW in the field. Will the absence of TW from golf effect my business ??? Not one bit as we sold very little NIKE equipment with him in the field in fact it was ranked last in sales and profitability. I beleive TGC got duped, slaughtered and quartered with all this happening. To bad for them as they are the perfect example of “Eggs in One Basket”. Now maybe they will come down off of their High Horse and report on our beloved sport of GOLF and not just TW most of the time. The top 10 TW re=runs were getting real real old. The ratings will drop some without TW in the field but the sport of Golf on TV will continue on as it always did prior to TW arriving on the scene. Kapalua is just 11 days away and I am looking forward to seeing some of the worlds best compete with equal coverage for all. The TW Bandwagon Riders will just have to watch something else while they are waiting for Mr. Woods to return or might I suggest to them that they watch without him and learn to appreciate our beloved game of golf…jumpn/progolf
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
jump’n/progolf,
Like I said to F&G…."Perhaps a dictionary visit would be appropriate for you….DUPED…
"transitive verb duped, duping dup′·ing
to deceive by trickery; fool or cheat"
..same thing applies to you…you were duped, whether you admit it or not. Why you are disputing this simple truth defies logic.
And then there’s this silly statement of yours…“The only people that (who) got duped are those that depended on TW for their weekend fix.”….well I didn’t depend on TW for my weekend fix, and I got duped, so that destroys your specious argument.
Mrs. Woods was Duped not me.
I’ll close with this. The only way a Golfer can “dupe” me is to use illegal equipment, or cheat on course. I place no man on a pedestal. I don’t consider that being duped. That’s just plain Naive and that i am not. Again, if you cheat on course you have cheated me, and the game. What a man does at home is his business. And to hold golf above other sports is too, Naive IMHO. Yes the game is played in a honorable fashion. On Course, but it is played by flawed Human Beings, Of Course.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions
Good…I’m glad you’re closing with that because we don’t need your naivete or your ignorance here. You think that you’re not naive and yet you don’t consider yourself duped by Tiger. You, like all other golf fans, were duped by Tiger. He stared right into the camera and said that for him, family comes first. Always! We were lied to, we were duped….some of us are honest enough to admit the obvious. I have no friggin idea why you can’t admit this simple truth other than you’re a stubborn moron!
Then again...
one is only duped if one believes the statement in the first place….Tiger said “family comes first”…I guess we were lied to and duped.What public person has always told the turth ? It is not in their interests to do so.
That’s true, Easingwold, and I said this to 3IRONS about that yesterday…
“Now I admit to reading some of your posts at TGC over the past couple of years; but I will go on record here right now as betting you a thousand dollars to a donut that you did NOT ever post anything about TW’s multiple infidelities!!!! So in other words you were duped also! You’re like the schoolyard smartass who always knows everything, we’ve all known and despised people like you, when told something incredible and unknown for the first time, you always reply, "well, I knew that all along". O really, then why didn’t you say something before it was just revealed?”
…I guess this is why 3IRONS and F&G are so stubbornly saying that the only ones who were duped were those who refused to accept the truth. Of course, I’ve asked them on multiple occasions to explain that but they have cowardly refused to do so.
But...
as I have said before, because golfers are seen as more
honest than other sports,Tigers lies seem bigger than, say Jordans.Not because he may get paid more, or there is more media attention, it’s because it is golf…the last of the noble sports. I, for one, am glad I play this great game.
Tom Benson too.........Priceless lol..
Hey, 66er I thought you said this was a kinder gentler sight. Someone let Nibs in on the news. I was a naive, ignorant moron in his last post. You duped me into believing this was a “nice” sight. You looked right into your computer, and you lied……Whaaaaaaaa…….Whaaaaaaaaaaa……….lollol. He looked right into the camera and he lied to me…..Whaaaaaaa…….Whaaaaaaa……..
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 7:04 PM EST reply actions
F&G,
I called you a stubborn moron in my last post, but you have acted like a naive ignorant moron and I have truthfully called you that also. And don’t forget the arrogant know-it-all and intellectual coward monikers that I have rightly labeled you with also. You have earned every epitaph that I have thrown at you and more. I have documented everything that you have said that warrants my uncivil replies to you. By the way, I am still waiting for your reply to my question to you, I’ll even very civilly repeat it for you…
“And concerning your "Duped?" comments, I asked you the same question yesterday and you ignored it, but here it is again for you to ignore(you’re an intellectual coward!)…
"There it is again, now you’re siding with 3IRONS, he said the same thing as you said…”Those who have been duped who are above the age of say 25, well that taste you are left with is Kool-aid, and that’s only your fault" How in the world is that my fault? (I’m not going to waste much time responding to you; 3IRONS didn’t answer my question and you probably won’t either)"
Nibs..........
It’s your fault if you drink the kool-aid. If you believe the press release about anybody in public life, then you are falling prey to a marketing machine. Most of these public figures are under intense pressure/scrutiny, and thus prone to many vices. Whether it be Drugs/alcolhol……ganbling…….the ladies…….., or one of the other releases out there. If you are duped by a persona based on no personal knowledge, then i find that sad. I don’t know you, but all of your name calling, and the likes on this subject leads me to believe that this situation has had a profound effect on you. Sorry for that mate. Going forward, don’t believe the hype!! These guys are people like us all. No better, no worse. All prone to failures, and the same ups and downs as common folk. My statements were to question how people are “duped” by an imaginary perception of someone whom they don’t know created by strategists, and agents. They’re people…..people……I will strive to remain civil with you despite your onslaught of verbal attacks. Peace to men, and Goodwill on earth. Have a great start to your new year, and may you hit’em straight. I hope you are never duped again. Seems to have really hurt, and scarred you. Peace
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
F&G,
You said…“If you are duped by a persona based on no personal knowledge, then i find that sad.” WHY? It’s certainly not my fault. What I find sad is that you were duped also and yet for some reason you won’t admit it.
And then you said…" I don’t know you, but all of your name calling, and the likes on this subject leads me to believe that this situation has had a profound effect on you." Wrong again….I could care less about TW and you. My only concern is truth. I’ve printed the definition of “duped” a couple of times here; if you did not know that Tiger Woods was cheating on his wife before the NE revelations, then you were duped also. It’s as simple as that.
I could care less about your civility, I would like a little honesty and reason from you though.
F&G shall forevermore be known as “Humpty Dumpty”…
" In Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll’s sequel to Alice in Wonderland, Alice meets Humpty Dumpty.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master — that’s all."
The egg-man is convinced that whatever nonsense he utters makes sense because he says it does."
I'm worried about you.
Any grown man quoting Lewis Carroll through Alice………..Well you may have some issues which explain your whole take on this matter. I mean Are you Serious?? Never mind your childish name-calling, and your very sensitive feelings about a grown man “duping” you. Nibs………..Are you blonde by chance? Come out of that closet right now. Did Tiger promise you something Did he miss Thanksgiving at your parents house AGAIN?? Girl i’m sorry, and i take it all back. You’re hurt, and i didn’t take it seriously. Now you’re even sitting around waxing nostalgic about Lewis Carroll novels. Hey, Do not watch TGC for a few days……….TW’s on,,,,,,take off those shoe strings too……..Call a loved one who can talk you out of this state of mind. After all you’ve been “duped”, and it hurt you to your core. I am sorry, you take care. Remember. don’t watch the Golf Channel, He’s on. lol no lmfao.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 28, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take the blame
As I invited you and others to this sight , I never said kinder and gentler, I said CIVIL. LOL If you are feeling duped F&G’s may I recomend TGC. I’m sure Rich Lerner and Randel Mel will be happy to see ya. hahahahahaha. Ok, now that the dust has settled, who is picking Tiger for their fantasy golf team for Kapalua ? Anyone ? BUELLER ? Perhaos we will see his boat parked just off shore in Kapalua with some new faces. ALL ABOARD, The Ship Of Fools departs in 10 minutes…jumpn/progolf
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
The question is...
How many will pick him when he returns. I’ll always take him when he’s playing.
Roll Tide !!
You mislead me......
Civil you said, and i bit………Never have i felt more betrayed, and i thought posters on a golf blog were a gentlemanly lot. I will post with you in the future, but things will never be the same. lmao…….. If i catch that Niblic on TGC, well i’ll……………. Okay; quick name 10 “winners” from last year, and how they’ll do in Kapalua……………Has anyone seen last year’s winner Geoff Ogilvy lately. He promised greatness last year, then just went away. Again, we were duped. This must change. This must change…… lol. DUPED………What??
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Its all good Tigerhead
I joke around about everything as you know. This post may set a new waggleroom record for comments. If it does, should we announce that it was TW that helped set that record ?
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Sounds good to me..
As you know Tdubya is always after new records…lol And yes I knew your were joking above.
Roll Tide !!
Actually.......
The fantasy golf thing should be very interesting this year. Maybe it’s the 2K10 thing but there seems to be a lot of young guns looking to take up the battle on tour. With “da man” off “fixing” things. Who will step?? Season starts in less than two weeks, and it should be interesting.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 27, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions
The Three Stooges !!!!
F&G’s, Thanks for the reminder, your second to last comment said " If I catch that Niblic on TGC well I’ll _, lol It’s that New Years Eve time once again and that can only mean one thing…….“Drum Roll Please” The Three Stooges Marathon will be on for our viewing pleaure.. The heck with what i said earlier about this forum being like a boxing match, it is but it does have some Stooges thrown in to the act. Earlier I was thinking to myself about the word DUPED, and Mr. Webster wrote the correct definition indeed, however by todays standards it’s all up to interpritation in the real street world. For instance, The Stooges were going fishing one time and they came across a sign that said, “Fine for Fishing” and Moe says, This must be the right place cause the sign says so. Whats my point ??? That answer is determined only by the reader…When Moe wasn’t on and Shemp was in his place did I watch the Stooges any less ?? Nope ,Cause it was Great to Be a Three Stooges Fan….jumpn/progolf
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Again with the “deeply flawed”? Man, for some reason that statement just irks me. Yes, humanity makes us imperfect, but I will not buy for one second that Tiger didn’t know what he was getting into when he made the choices he did.
Easingwold has summed up my thoughts well in his posts above…good stuff.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
It almost sounds like a cop-out. Not on Ryan’s part necessarily, because it’s kind of a pervasive factor in this discussion and in similar ones. Like, “well, we’re all deeply flawed, so…” It might be hard to imagine ourselves in that situation, but it’s not hard to realize that he knew what he was doing. There’s just no excuse for bad behavior and pointing out the flawed state of humanity is just not changing the fact that life is a set of choices and some of them might not be so clear, but there are some, like in this case, where there is no gray area between right and wrong.
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed. When I read that part, I get the “cop out” vibe and I don’t like it.
I guess the question I have to resolve in my own mind is if I can like/respect “parts” of Tiger (his golf skills) despite the feeling of disgust I get knowing what I know now. Tigerhead made some thoughtful arguments for that. I guess I’ll find out how I feel the next time Tiger steps onto the tee box.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
I don’t think I’m going to be too conflicted when he starts playing again. On one hand, it’s easy to recognize that he did wrong, On the other hand, he didn’t do wrong to me because I don’t have a personal relationship with him, if that makes sense. And, in the grand scheme of things, there are much worse things than infidelity. If, for instance, we were talking about violent crime or something, then, OK, that personally offends me.
So, while I do believe there’s no excuse, I also don’t believe the offense is serious, at least to me personally.
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
And wouldn’t we ALL be better off if we thought like that ? Well said, Eagle.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Not so fast, Court.......
D/E is basing his opinion on the fact that infidelity doesn’t offend him, which for him that is his choice. I think for most of us infidelity is offensive and massive infidelity is very very offensive, especially when accompanied by lies and arrogance. I am sick and tired of being told that cheating on your wife and family is no big deal. There seems to be some badge of honor in society today for cheaters……how many “notches” on their belt. So no, we wouldn’t be better off if we all thought like that. Maybe if more men were true to their vows, our society wouldn’t be so screwed up. For me, seeing Tiger on the first tee will be nauseating………
And, by the way…..his cheating does affect me. As a man, I am lumped into that stereotype cesspool of “all men are cheaters”……..
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
he didn’t say that infidelity didn’t “offend” him – he said that Tiger’s infidelities didn’t AFFECT him.
here’s a question for you – would you really want anything to do with a woman who lives by statements like that ? Personally, I have ended dates when I found out that she thought that way about men. If women want to run around saying that they are all “unique” and not a part of any group…which is nonsense since none of us are an island…then it is a mistake to put “all men” in the same catagory. logic.
why do you assume that only men cheat on their spouses ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
You're right, he said
“I also don’t believe the offense is serious, at least to me personally”, which still fits with my post quite well. I’m not sure where you’re going with the woman thing……this is about men and a man named Tiger…..an yes, of course women cheat….duh.
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
You brought it up...not me...
“Maybe if more men were true to their vows, our society wouldn’t be so screwed up.”
and I’m not disagreeing with you – but if you’re going to make a point – make the WHOLE point. It’s not a MALE weakness – it’s a HUMAN weakness.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Sure it's a big deal
To the parties involved. To the rest of us, not so much.
You’re fighting a larger battle with the stereotypes. Lump the “men are cheaters” right on the pile with the rest of them. As a conservative living in NJ, I can tell you all about people applying unfair stereotypes to people. But that’s their problem, not mine.
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
You're kidding right???
Not a big deal to the rest of us???? Then why has this stayed in the international news for so long, why has Tiger gone into hiding, and why is he the brunt of all the comedians……big deal, yeah I think so.
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Do you really not know the answer ? Do you really think Jay Leno is a “big deal” ? or Oprah ? Or TMZ ?
The reason this has stayed in the media (mostly the tabloids and other gossip networks) is because it is salacious and gossipy. Our society has degraded to this level – so stories about celebrities have legs.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I have no idea how to reply to that.
if the most important thing in your life (not using “your” in the personal) is how someone else’s marriage is going or is not going – or which celebrity is doing what to who….or whatever gossip is on the grapevine – then Obama and Oprah win.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Court, I hope
your dawgs can win it tonight. It’s the big thing in town right now. I’m not going, I have family in town.
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Would you be talking about Tiger Woods if you didn’t have idle gossip time on your hands? No? Then how serious can it really be?
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, this is my last post on this.
If you guys want to live in denial, that’s fine. I just know that everywhere I go, people are and have been talking about this. Granted, I don’t go many places besides church and the golf course, but it is being talked about……from many different perspectives.
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Yes
And wherever I go, people are talking about the Philadelphia Eagles too. Change the team to be appropriate to wherever you are and the point is the same. People are talking a lot about things that just aren’t important in the grand scheme of things. It’s gossip. It’s fun. But it’s not serious. Serious is terrorists trying to blow up airliners. Serious is whether we’ll have jobs next year. Wars are serious. Celebrity gossip is not serious.
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Not when I am over a 3 foot putt...
and that is my point. In the grand scheme of things, Tiger is just a blip . If this crap ever gets on Oprah,( she is just a very big part of the media) it’ll just feed the vultures that much more. I think he needs to take the whole year off.
Gossip fuels the fire. That’s it. If this was your neighbor up the street, no one in the world would care but those of you that like to gossip about him. But if your neighbor up the street was cutting off the heads of neighborhood children and carrying them around in duffel bags, it would be world news for a long time.
There’s a simple formula that determines how long something will stay in the news. Severity of offense multiplied by the notoriety of the individual. In Tiger’s case, the offense was relatively minor to society at large, but the individual is one of the most recognizable on the planet. In the fictional example of your neighbor, his notoriety is zero, but the severity of the event is off the chart. That’s exactly why some anonymous nobody cheating on his wife is not news on any level at all.
I think it’s pretty plainly obvious why Tiger went into hiding. Clearly, he would have a photographer and/or reporter up his corn hole every moment of the day if he didn’t. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the relative severity of infidelity to society as a whole.
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
If this was your neighbor up the street, no one in the world would care but those of you that like to gossip about him.
I think I get your point (about notoriety), but really, if this was my neighbor up the street, there are going to be people in the world that care – family, friends, co-workers, maybe even me – adultry is tragic – part of our job here on Earth is to help each other out – when someone makes bad choices or fails in some way part of our role is to point that out, and then when they are ready, to help them heal, or be better, and to help avoid it in the future.
Society suffers when we start to accept bad behavior…if we choose to say or do nothing about breaking a commandment it just creates another crack in our path. Yes, I get that none of us know Tiger, and none of us are in a position to help him, but I do believe by this being out in the public it may have created food for thought for all of us. And I think it’s important to acknowledge that none of us are above rules we choose to live by – I think it’s okay to use Tiger as an example, even if he doesn’t choose to live by the same rules as I do. If we don’t, then we’re all doomed to live by the lowest common denominator.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
so this gossip mongering and media feeding frenzy is helping him “heal” ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
…not the gossip mongering and media feeding frenzy – but the discussion and debate about his actions. And not for Tiger, since we’re not in his circle…but for others who may be choosing those same wrong choices or contemplating his choices. Why can’t we use what he has done as an example in our own circles?
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
but the “discussion and debate” isn’t focused on the general public and using Tiger’s problems (of which we still only know one side) as a warning to society in general – it is gossip about how evil Tiger Woods is.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I guess I was talking about the conversations we’ve had here, which for the most part have focused on our own opinions on his actions, don’t you think?
I wasn’t thinking of what TMZ or other outlets are saying…is that what you were thinking?
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
Either way – we haven’t had a conversation on here about the lessons we here in the WR community could/should learn from this whole mess.
But I agree with you – if this thing had been handled correctly, we, in AND out of the WR world, would be talking about lessons to learn – not how many ho’s Tiger’s been with.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I understand
And we certainly shouldn’t tolerate bad behavior and maybe I shouldn’t have said that the only people that will care are those who would gossip about it. Certainly those who are personally involved would care, as they should. It’s just that in Tiger’s case, the number of people personally involved probably isn’t much different than what there would be if it were one of our neighbors in trouble.
by Double Eagle on Dec 28, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
You're only "duped" if you watched Tiger Woods for anything other than golf....and that's not his fault
Seriously, folks. Why does ANY of this bother you ? We’re all GOLF fans – we like watching the best of the best perform week in and week out. What he did in and out of his marriage has NOTHING to do with us.
Does Tiger Woods having all these affairs affect the quality of Gillette razor blades ? Do Tag Hauer watches run faster or slower because of them ? Does green gatorade taste any worse than it already did because Tiger was sleeping around ?
Of course not – which is exactly why all of this tabloid gossip is NONSENSE !
If any of you decided to have an extra-marital affair and got caught, you wouldn’t want it spread all over the office and neighborhood by the local bitties and gossips, would you ? No.
So why are you have so much fun tearing down Tiger Woods for it ? Having fun tearing down another human being ? Does it make you feel better about yourself ?
If YOU thought he was “superhuman” and above any kind of temptaion – then YOU are the fool.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
“…the local bitties and gossips…”
Are bitties female and gossips male?? ;-)
Good points…and good reminders.
I write about golf at www.tees2greens.com, too.
Tearing down Tiger??????????
Court……we may be commenting and giving opinions about the Tiger crap, but we can hardly “tear down” someone who has committed “image” suicide. He is so far down there’s nothing left to tear down…….but I would like to “kick” him a little while he’s wallowing in the crapper. Just kidding.
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
then why continue with the assault on the man ? should he just throw himself off a cliff….oh wait…he’s in Florida…better make it a building… ? From the sound of it – Woods cannot be redeamed – he cannot overcome his choices and change his ways ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Sure he can be redeemed,
and maybe he has been, but when he goes into hiding, how would anyone know. I hope he does get redeemed and finds that peace that he won’t find in golf or porn stars or sluts. If he does, then I will be his biggest cheerleader!!!!!
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Exactly....
I didn’t watch any golf tournaments waiting for Ghandi to make a putt. I didn’t sit there saying if he wins this tournament, the terrorism will end. I wasn’t waiting for him to enlighten me about nuclear proliferation……..He’s a golfer………He’s not a family counselor, not a pastor, not a statesman, or anything. If he stops winning tournaments, then i wouldn’t care a lick about the guy. Don’t know him, and never met ‘em. It’s golf guys……and i don’t understand the pinning my hopes on a golfer argument. Court you have nailed this one. If you feel “duped” it’s because of your own foolishness. In that regard, good can come of this. Change your own foolish ways. Golfers are …………..well………..Just Golfers. They’re people………..people.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 28, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Good and valid points by
court, red tees and double eagle. I’m a fan of the game itself and not a weekend TW only fan. I have pretty thick skin and not much bothers me accept when someone lies or steals. Granted his statement on National Television to his fans and others stating, “My Family Comes First” was an outright lie, but it doesn’t effect my life in any way, shape or form. I’d bet dimes to donuts that it HAS effected some of his fan base though.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
courtgolf said…"You’re only “duped” if you watched Tiger Woods for anything other than golf….and that’s not his fault " WRONG! The title of this article is “Tiger Woods Did Not Dupe Us, We Duped Ourselves”….that is wrong also, Tiger Woods did dupe us, along with help from the media and the PGA Tour players, and that most certainly is his fault. All your other words, as usual, are nonsense!
all this bitterness, nibs. not good for you. I’m still waiting for a list of all the ways your life has been damaged because Tiger Woods had a bunch of affairs.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Why wait, especially since you never asked for any such stupid list? And I’ve said on multiple occasions in this very thread that the TW scandal hasn’t affected me in the least. O if only you could read! And don’t worry about me, I’m doing just fine…I’m really not bitter, I just don’t suffer fools gladly, and I am very happy to attack and refute foolishness whereever I find it, which in the context of WaggleRoom, usually means yours and F&G’s posts.
I’ve asked several times – and not just to you. I’d suggest you go back and re-read your own posts. You have been oozing anger and bitterness towards Woods. If none of this affects you, are you always like this ? Or are you kidding yourself that this isn’t affecting you ? Just asking.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I’ve gone back, maybe you should too, and re-read my posts and my anger/bitterness is not directed at TW but rather at the idiots here, actually it’s been boiled down to one idiot, F&G/Humpty Dumpty, who refuses to accept the meaning of the word “duped”.
None of this affects me; yes, I am always a staunch defender of the TRUTH.
Not kidding myself….anymore questions?
jumpn/progolf,
I’ve pointed this out several times to you but you keep missing the point…you don’t have to necessarily care about this or to have it affect (not effect) your life in order to be duped. Like I’ve said on numerous occasions, and you just concurred with, TW lied to us about his family coming first, always. TW along with the media and the PGA tour players, duped us. That’s all there is to it; that doesn’t mean it affects anyone’s life(other than TW). You’re falling into the same stupid mode as F&G, or I should say Humpty Dumpty, who insists that I and anyone who was duped by this TW scandal, was both responsible for being duped and deeply affected by it. First of all, we were all duped by TW although through no fault of our own and secondly, it has not affected me in the least.
NIBLIC My Man
I will be in Las Vegas from the 10th of January until the 15th. If it’s to cold for your old bones to play golf I understand and I have bunches of meetings to attend. Tis the season !! Anyway, I’ll be happy to make the time to meet up with ya for at least a drink or 2 or 3 or 4 and we can discuss all the worlds problems then. Let me know.
My other question to Ryan or Court is,,,,,,Is this post a record setting amount of comments ???
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Court.....we could take up a collection and send you to.....
say…Egypt?
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
hahahaha em
someone needs to tell TW, that Denial is not just another river in Egypt.. I know it’s an old one but I thought it applied at the moment.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
jumpn/progolf,
Sounds good….can Ryan either give my email address to you or vice versa so we can cummunicate on how to communicate in Vegas?
nibs......you can get a free email
address at yahoo and use it. Just put it on your profile and we can email you.
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
sounds good
e mail Ryan your e mail address and I will do the same.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
If you want, nibs can email me and I
will get it to jumpn…..i have his email address……but if I give it to you, I’ll have to kill you……lol
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Nibbles is blonde.......
Don’t read too much into this, but add up the points, and you’ll have to come to the conclusion……Nibbles was on the TW hit list. Thus the angry tenor of (her) posts. I mean she has lashed out at anybody who didn’t feel personally “duped” by TW. You had to feel her pain, and you had to share her sorrow. It’s okay now nibbles, that bad man has been taken to the “woods shed” it’s time for you to move on. Do not watch TGC for a few days (that bad man) is on. He “duped” you, and he didn’t leave you a voicemail. Hey, is Meredith Viera cute in person?? I mean, we feel your pain girl. It gets better……it gets better.
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 28, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
this is a......
classic example of denial. Or this girl is just having a blonde moment. Hasn’t affected her in the least…….Please.
"The game is swell when it's played well."
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 31, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Here's one thing nobody has asked about this...
…and it’s right there at the top – the first two paragraphs.
I was reading a story in the Palm Beach Post this morning about a customer at golf store Golfsmith that went berzerk when she saw a poster of Tiger Woods hanging over a display of his Nike branded merchandise.
She yelled, “Philanderer! Cheater!” at the poster. At the poster.
Did anybody ask this woman if the poster talked back to her ? :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Aaaaaaah........those posters don't talk to you????
There are a stinkin lot of posters here that are talking back to me…….nobody else hears it?
did you hear that?
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
kick back on the Kool-Aid bud
If your hearing foot steps DOH !!!
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
nah – the last poster that talked to me was Farrah Fawcett back in the 70’s…mmmmmm. 8-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I heard about that court,
Back during the OJ trials I was in a local store and some woman was screaming in the check out line , and grabbing at the tabloids ripping his face off of the pages LOLOL,,, I’ll never forget it
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
My question never got answered.
Is this a waggleroom record setting blog post at almost 200 comments ?? Gawd I hate to put anyone out for an answer. Unless of course Ryan demands “Privacy” in these types of matters LOL. sorry had to go there
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
The next post will be 200......Oh wait....
I am the next post……WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP…….lol
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Nice try em
But I am #200 neener neener,, you have been DUPED
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Ok, ok, so I missed counted......we're golfers you know.....
“What did you make?…..lets see….ah…3, 4, 5,…..ah give me a 4”……LOL LOL
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
Speaking of that !!!
Whats with all the sudden influx of erasers on pencils at most of the public golf courses these days. Gawwwwwwwwwd, I remember when that was a SIN.
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
How about reading the Rules
SHANKAPOTOMUS !!!!!!!! Everytime I see that baby picture of yours, I can’t help think about that funny e-trade commercial with the babies arriving back from a game of golf LOLOL
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
Some of the best commercials on the tube.......
Shankapotomus is one of the best lines in tv history…….That cutie in the picture is my granddaughter…….I’m just a little proud of her…..she loves golf and is only 2…..I used to say she would be the next …..ti………well let’s just say we don’t use that line anymore…..lol lol
Saints are killing me!!!!!!!!
She’s a cutie alright ! Let’s hope she hits the ball like Wie…but speaks the language like em. :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
She's a spitting image of Michelle Wie.
Can’t wait to see her on the lpga tour. That’s cool
by Fairways and Grins on Dec 29, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions
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