LPGA on GNN (& Waggle Room) - 9/2/08
by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 3, 2008 9:29 AM EDT
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PrintThis is the -sometimes- weekly podcast I host on the LPGA Tour. I thought I would try the LPGA English issue from a different angle: the business. Take a listen!
We host an entire edition of the show to the LPGA English issue because we have no event to talk about this week. Ryan breaks down the policy objectively in Carolyn Bivens' words. Then, we discuss if this policy will actually help the LPGA Tour's business model, as intended. Finally, Ryan talks about how much of a distraction this is from the great golf on Tour.
Click here to listen!
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WHHAAAAATTTTT
Beth Ann Baldry’s piece that STARTED this whole mess isn’t relevant ? This mess started with an opinion piece with very little attention to facts. Sirak is an idiot playing the race card.
Can’t defend the way Bivens communicates – she always sounds like she’s reading from a text book.
The LPGA really doesn’t depend on ticket sales very much. They give away as many or more tickets than they sell, and that money mostly goes to pay tournament expenses – not purses.
Technical note – Gotta get the microphone thing fixed – your level is in and out with a lot of breath pops. Any chance of a media player upgrade with a volume control and a rewind button ?
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
wait, they give away tickets?
Oh yeah, that’s right. If I had contacted my uncle sooner, I could have gotten my family into the Wegmans for free. Dammit! Well, hey, at least I did my part to help the tour’s bottom line!
by The Constructivist on Sep 3, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
After listening to this podcast...
I had a more than a few things to say about it – I wrote up a response, re-read it, felt better and then deleted it – there’s really no room for a conversation here already – it’s been polarized, and trying to have a debate about it seems pointless. Needless to say, I’m pretty sorry I wasted about 24 minutes of my day today…
But as a fan, and an American, I was completely insulted by the suggestion that simply because I’m an American I don’t like the Korean players winning (and assuming that’s why this policy is happening). “Americans like Americans” didn’t you say? It’s broad brush statements like those that kill any rational conversation opportunities. (Maybe if you would have at least said “some Americans” I wouldn’t have taken it so personally.)
as bad as it sounds...
…that “Americans like Americans” theme is pretty standard in the media. The biggest sport you’ll see it in is tennis. Broadcasters will force feed bad American matches on the air instead of taking the time to educate the viewers on who is really playing good tennis and showing them. Articles on “what happened to the great American players” are constant in magazines. The rest of the world caught up in tennis – golf is probably next. What we don’t see here is that every other country with big time athletes does the same thing. It’s just that if Americans do it, we have plenty of PC police around to say that we are “bullies” and shouldn’t be “mean” to the rest of the world.
We get this lazy stereotyping in the media in most sports. Baseball somehow manages to have the Yankees and Red Sox on seemingly every weekend, and if they aren’t in the playoffs getting ready to face the Mets or Dodgers in the World Series, the east coast media declares that nobody will watch. Instead of looking at the Rays or Brewers and saying – “look here – these guys are having a great season – let’s get everybody on board here” – they just stick with the Spankees and Sox. Football is the same way with the NL East, the Patriots, and the Colts. They tell the easy stories.
And no, Ryan – I’m not saying you are in the “lazy media” catagory. lol
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Sorry to insult
I certainly didn’t mean that ALL Americans only like to watch Americans. I tried carefully to qualify that general sentiment by saying that not everyone feels this way, but it’s the stereotype and I have personally seen it many, many times. I would certainly not accuse any anonymous person listening to the show that they are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.
And I also agree with your sentiment that we’re not alone. Other nations do something extremely similar. One need not do any more than watch a World Cup game. No one is rooting for every team to do well. They’re rooting for their country. And that’s totally ok with me. Think Ai Miyazato and I need not say more.
But, it’s hard to deny Americans’ general attitudes toward foreigners. Look at how the debate around immigration reform has gone. Those who want to kick out every illegal immigrant stereotype them as moochers who don’t speak English and won’t integrate into American society. Many of the most vehement in this camp want for people who look and speak different to conform.
Those who are more sympathetic correctly identify that – while some of that stereotype is true – it’s not across the board.
I think you could easily apply those sides of that debate to this issue, at least thematically. The folks in favor of this policy understand that the LPGA Tour is US based (even if 35% of the schedule is not) and that English is the overwhelmingly spoken language here. Some level of English proficiency, to them, makes good sense. They want some kind of connection to those players beyond the language of golf. Sponsors (save State Farm apparently) may want the same.
The people who are against this policy do not find it the place of a golf tour to tell players what to do and require them some level of proficiency. I’ve gone over my reasons time and time again, so no need to rehash.
But, my comments about Americans being weary of people who look different is very, very valid. There are numerous studies to back up that case from every possible field of research in sociology and psychology.
I made the argument that this policy does not help because the required level of English proficiency does nothing to alleviate the opinions of some fans that do not want to watch foreigners kick US butt on our soil. There have been tens of stories done on that very topic in the golf media and the snickers at LPGA Tour event confirm it. Am I saying that’s across the board? Of course not, and Court, you know better than to make that kind of leap from someone as rational as me.
I just don’t think that what Bivens is proposing will actually do what she says it will – help players connect better with fans and sponsors. Period. State Farm proved it today.
by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 3, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
fans ??
The fans have nothing to do with this. The fans can only watch what is on TV unless they are at the tournament – and the galleries I see around the top players, regardless of where they are from, are pretty darn big. (unless Michelle Wie is in the field)
WHAT level of proficiency ? It hasn’t been defined yet. (a big mistake by The Biv – not being able to define her terms before opening the door on this mess) The “tens of stories” were written based on the Baldry opinions that started this mess.
These “studies” you site are also very one sided. I’ve seen this kind of “study” before, and all they do is babble about how bad Americans are about accepting others. Got news for you – these groups that come to America aren’t always very accepting of Americans. I have worked for a golf store owned by Koreans and run by a former North Korean – fascinating people to deal with – but rule #1 was “don’t trust the round eye”. This was spoken publicly. No Americans were ever allowed to run a cash register. This country is overrun with illegals coming across the border from Mexico – making no apology for swinging their Mexican flags and living a “mexican” lifestyle under the protection of the United States.
The studies rarely add to their conclusions that if they did their studies in Asia or Africa or Europe – they would find the same sort of attitude. Only Americans are made up of such anti-social and unaccepting stock.
Breaking out the “35%” of the schedule that is not held on American soil is a bit misleading. No more than two consecutive weeks are played in any single country other than the US.
By saying that this policy won’t work – you presume to know the future – and you ignore the situation. This has been a problem and a complaint for a number of years – and as poor a job as was done in putting out the story to the public by the LPGA – it is a situation that needed to be addressed.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I think this issue
Is especially tough to discuss because it’s tough to separate emotion out of it. (That’s why political arguments never go anywhere, I think.)
Again, I don’t disagree with you at all that people are mistrusting, xenophobic, etc and that is in no way relegated to American society. So, in that regard, I don’t think the studies are one-sided. They speak to a phenomenon that is global – just using American subjects.
The stories I have been talking about were written starting over 10 years ago when Se Ri first came on the scene. People have been gawking about Asian dominance since then.
I don’t find the 35% to be misleading. It’s just how it is. There are 1.5 defined Asian swings on Tour now and they’re expected to grow. I am glad to see the LPGA come out and say they will try to teach all players about key phrases in each of the countries they visit. That counts for something for the xenophobics.
My stance on this is simple – I just don’t think it’ll work and I don’t think it should then be required. You said it yourself. If this has been an issue for years (and it has), then how has the LPGA Tour grown so much under Ty and Carolyn now? It can’t just be a fluke. And it is something as simple as learning 500 words of English to get by that is holding the Tour back from the stratosphere of major sponsors?
by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 3, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
okie dokie
the studies are one sided because they only address and denegrate Americans. They do not take the next logical step to see that there are people in every country that don’t like or accept people from other races, religions, genders,ages, creeds…..
the 35% is misleading because those tournaments are not all held in countries with the same language. if they were all in France or Mexico or Japan, for example, then that figure would hold more water. you cannot expect players to speak 7 or 8 languages – but it is reasonable to expect them to be able to speak the language of the country that is the host of the Tour.
The LPGA WAS growing – they have lost a number of sponsors over the last few years – and there aren’t a lot of sponsors stepping in to take their place. Tiger Woods had a bit of an affect on all areas of golf – including the LPGA. His presense affected girls as well as boys who took up the game. Unfortunately, even with the increased depth of the women’s games – there just aren’t sponsors willing to pony up the cash for a tournament that can’t sell tickets, doesn’t have a decent TV contract, and doesn’t provide much of a return on investment.
Learning a little bit of English is not the magic spell that will bring huge dollars and increased tournaments to the LPGA’s doorstep – I don’t know where this exaggeration came from – but it IS a piece that can help KEEP the sponsors they have – and MAY add an extra bargaining chip to bring in new sponsors.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
The foreign events
Are more significant pertaining in particular the berth of the Asian swings. That’s where networks pay to have the LPGA on TV.
The LPGA Tour is not alone in sponsor problems. The PGA Tour has serious problems of their own. They have a ton of their schedule sponsored by financial firms. In a piece about the FBR Open, they basically said at FBR that if the Tour didn’t require 5-6 year agreements for sponsorship, they probably wouldn’t sign up today. Deutsche Bank basically said the same thing.
There are a ton of factors involved in why the LPGA Tour is stagnant and now struggling in sponsorship – tough economy, women’s sports don’t draw as much, not lots of people love watching pro golf, the Tour doesn’t force sponsors to commit long-term, English barrier (there, I said it :) ).
Why not address the fundamental flaws in the business model instead of putting a band-aid on a gaping wound?
by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 3, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
true enough, but..
…the PGA Tour still has a huge TV contract. All they have to do to balance the books is to drop their prices on events that do not and will not draw the top names. Tiger basically plays the minimum and his schedule is pretty constant. Mickelson is similar – but he does make an occassional change when some new idea for major preparation comes into his mind. Instead of demanding $4-8 million from these smaller tournaments, drop the asking price to $2-3 million and they will continue to line up to sponsor events.
The PGA Tour still thinks that it is riding an expanding wave of Tiger Woods. His recent injury and layoff has sent a serious scare through the front offices.
What “fundamental flaws” are you talking about in their business model ?
Bivens described it very well when she called it a model of “hospitality”. That’s one of the biggest things women have going for them – their personalities and talent for hospitality. (face it – women tell us men every day that we are useless in the kitchen and in preparing for parties and events) That is what the LPGA is trying to build on. For a few years, some hairbrained marketers tried to sell the LPGA based on sex – but it’s hard to sell Laura Davies and Christina Kim in that model. Natalie Gulbis may ooze sexiness, but she is collecting big bucks outside of the tour, not on the course. And very few of the women on the tour want to be looked at as sex objects first and golfers second. They aren’t strippers – they are damn good golfers.
Unfortunately, most viewers and fans want to spend their dollars going to see the best golfers do things that they can’t do. Women golfers play mostly down the fairway, onto the green, and two putt for par. You very rarely see the miracle shot – like Annika’s hole out at 18 at the US Open this year – on the LPGA. People see Mickelnuts and Tiger getting into trouble – then they see Tiger make a miraculous shot to make birdie or par at worst — and we adopt the stereotypical NASCAR attitude, waiting for Mickelson to implode and dump one into the water – but it took a miracle to hit that lake ! :-)
The women have to do the things the men can’t do – and that is the basis of the business plan.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
however...
…didn’t mean to malign the Vulcan-like logic !!! :-)
(what DID you do with the ear tips ?) :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
ugh...
This topic is like a bad train wreck to me now – I want to stop thinking about it, but I can’t. For the record, I know you didn’t mean ALL Americans – but now you aren’t you just creating more problems than working towards any solutions?…now the LPGA has to become concerned that “some” Americans only want Americans to win?? What? Based on your references, I’ll believe that there is a case that there are some (maybe many) Americans that are threatened by the foreign players winning at sports – but which Americans are we talking about? Is the conclusion that those inside the LPGA inner circle are the ones threatened or are we just talking about the Average American on the street? And if it’s Average guy or gal, are they really worried about Koreans winning on the LPGA? So are you saying then, that the real purpose in all of this is to scare the Korean players off the tour just to appease the Pro-American mystery population? Can you help me understand the correlation between better communication and only wanting Americans to win?
How can you say that improved communications wouldn’t help at least SOME?? Sure, asking all players to communicate better with its English speaking fans/sponsors/media isn’t going to change people’s attitudes if they are “pro-American” but it certainly can’t hurt if the result is more people enjoying and learning about the top players either on the course or at corporate outings (who eventually fund their paychecks).
I can help with that...
…red – just find a quiet spot in your house, call your local Easy Listening station, and request “You Light Up My Life” – the tune will immediately imbed itself into your brain and you won’t be able to get rid of it for weeks. If you don’t throw yourself off the tallest building in town first, you will no longer have this story in your mind. :-D
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I will agree
that it can’t hurt. I just don’t think it will have the intended consequences that Bivens is hoping/claiming. It definitely will help some.
by Ryan Ballengee on Sep 3, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
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