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The 19th Hole Golf Show - 8/25/08

8/25 - The show starts by talking about The Barclays and Vijay's 2nd win of the year.  It's time to talk Ryder Cup in light on Darren Clarke's Dutch Tour win.  Danny Lee was incredible at Pinehurst #2 in the US Amateur and we'll discuss.  Finally, a nice 54 hole scramble on the LPGA Tour resulted in a Cristie Kerr win.

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seriously ?

“Fear in Ponte Vedra” ?? Come on. A bit of an overreaction, don’t you think ? What has Southerland done that would make you believe that he can repeat this performance two or three weeks in a row, much less be close enough to the top in Atlanta to win the Cup ? Besides, the guy was 57th on the list – not somewhere outside 120.

And what if he does play his way into the Tour Championship, or even win ? Southerland becomes a Cinderella story and the media will go nuts for him.

Padraig Harrington missed the cut in week one and dropped from #4 to #23 in the standings – but he has two more weeks to hold his spot and even build it back up. That’s also two weeks where Southerland could fall well back.

Yep – Tiger’s still mathematically in the picture for checks at the Tour Championship. Unfortunately, having 29 in the field isn’t unheard of at The Tour Championship. Mickelson and Woods have both skipped the event in the past for various reasons.

Good pieces on the Am and LPGA events !

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 26, 2008 12:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Media liking Sutherland?

I don’t think the media would have much in the way of positives for Kevin, who seems to be a nice guy. The media was calling for the FedEx Cup because they thought the end of the season stunk. (I was one of those people, and I still believe in it.) Now, after getting complaints, the media would love to take it down a peg. If Sutherland were to win, which I doubt he will, then that could cause a string of massive FedEx Cup RIP columns, etc.

But, without the FEC carrot of $35 million bonus pool, the Tour Championship would have closer to 20 players than 30. So, in that regard, it’s good.

by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 26, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but...

…that’s what the modern media lives for – someone to take shots at and rip to shreds. It doesn’t matter which way it goes or who wins – these guys will find something to complain about – but there would be Cinderella Man stories about a guy who played his way to the top of the biggest payday in golf.

If Sutherland wins – all the better for him – he will have beaten the odds.

Disagree with you on the size of the Tour Championship field. They would still have 30, maybe even more if they thought more players would make things more interesting. It was this size field well before Fed Ex got into the action. Remember, the Tour Championship also has an $8 million purse – a pretty good chunk of change among just 30 guys. They love these small field events !

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 26, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

That last part about 20 guys was hyperbole :)

I don’t have anything against Sutherland winning, but the Tour definitely needs to reframe the FedEx Cup as something fun and exciting – nothing about identifying the season champion.

by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 26, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I keep hearing that...

…but HOW do you make a game that is as slow as golf and make it “exciting” and “fun” ? What is out there that could possibly make golf “fun and exciting” ? Money isn’t the answer – Alex Rodriguez signed for $256 million and immediately became a target. The Cowboys and Yankees are building billion dollar stadiums – but if the teams are losing, nobody will care about the stadium. Money is everywhere and it’s just not a focus for excitement.

The excitement has to come from the players, and it seems that only one guy is capable of facing down the field and the course and make things exciting to watch. Tiger Woods pulls off one or two amazing shots a week, and people start to think that EVERY shot is that way. That’s one or two shots out of 72 holes worth of shots.

Being a pastoral game like baseball, it is by nature a slow paced game. Excitement is the exception, not the rule like in basketball or football. It’s a walk in the sunshine watching great golfers do things the rest of us can’t do.

and “fun” ?? beats me. 25,000-110,000 people on the golf course, who knows how many watching on TV – how do you define “fun” ? I’m in the purist camp, so my idea of “fun” is different than the majority. Modern baseball stadiums with all the games and things for kids to do are distractions from the game to me. Watching the Olympics was very difficult because I wanted to see the competition – I don’t care about all the stories and vignets NBC believes are necessary to bring in women viewers. Bad announcers are a huge distraction to what’s going on on the field. If someone asks me what I like to do at a golf tournament – my favorite thing to do is sit at the range and watch these guys hit balls. yeah – I’m the life of the party ! (lol)

What do you suggest ?

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 26, 2008 2:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately...

I think that there are way more people who need gimmicks to get pulled into something like golf than those like us who would watch kids play golf. (I have, in doing stories on the First Tee, for hours and it’s great entertainment.)

People watch the World Series of Poker in droves because they love the money aspect. They love seeing people play under the pressure for millions of dollars. Personalities certainly help – which many PGA Tour guys lack, by sports psychologist approval – but there needs to be a hook other than personalities.

There are some other things you could do to improve the product – trying to break down the rich stereotypes, better announcers, making golf on TV more engaging, etc – but no one seems to want to listen to any suggestions about that. Trust me, I’ve written on all of those topics. I have heard from the folks at TGC and CBS about those ideas, but I’m still blogging, so they must not be serious yet ;)

by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 26, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good insight...

But I can’t help but compare this thought of what needs to be done “to improve the product” to the whole LPGA English debate – isn’t that the purpose of the new policy – to improve the product (aka Players) so more people will get involved and become interested? I’m not saying it’s the right way to go about it, but that was the intention, wasn’t it? (I’ll leave the whole discussion of this policy in the other thread – just making an observation about the need to look at ways to improve images).

by red tees on Aug 29, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sssoooooo...

…do YOU pander to the uninitiated masses who have the attention span of a gnat, or do you tell yourself that golf is not and never will be like the NFL and deal honestly with the real golf fans ? Obviously, TV wants to try to pander to the masses in order to ride the Tiger- wave as long as possible – and damn the consequences down the line. But what woul YOU do if you had the magic wand ?

You’ll never get rid of the “rich guy” stereotype – even though the guys making 7 and 8 digits in the NFL and NBA FAR outnumber the PGA Tour guys who make over a million.

And I’ll NEVER understand the hiring practices of these networks. “Are you a former professional athlete ? Do you know how to mispronounce names and act like a jerk from time to time, insulting the guys you used to play with while calling it ‘honesty ?’ Yes ? You’re hired.”

Do you ever wonder if some of these guys would play better if they fired the sports psychologists and just went back to their instincts ?

The World Series of Poker is watched by millions of people who play the game. What is on ESPN is edited and the announcing added in later. Try watching the final table on pay-per-view. No card-cam shots and hardly any real announcing except for Howard Lederer reading the players and guessing at what they will do. (fascinating for a poker player – but excruciating to watch if you don’t know what’s going on) The chips and cards in a tournament are like balls and clubs – they have no value. They are playing FOR money, but what is in front of them is not the money. (you want to watch poker where there IS money in play – check out “High Stakes Poker” on The Game Show Network. They show seasons where the minimum buy-in is $100k – and last season’s buy-in was a minimum $500k. Their money in front of them. Now THAT’S pressure) I guess that’s why people who say the Skins Game is boring wish that they players would put up their own money.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 26, 2008 3:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Anyone ?

Anyone ?? Beuller ?

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 26, 2008 6:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think

no one could win this argument. There are a few too many perspectives to be considered, and none would back down :)

by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 27, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

EXACTLY !!!

I WIN !! ;) (lol)

I just wondered if you had any ideas that would be the kind of fun that would bring in viewers and patrons. (hey – I already admitted that I’m no fun) :-)

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 27, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The things like the 16th...

at the FBR and the 11th at this past year’s Australian PGA (I think) are great for the game. Have raucous holes that take the game almost out of the equation. Make it about the fans. I think that fantasy golf has helped to some extent, but it will never be as pervasive as fantasy football. Better stat packages on TV would help explain the game better.

But NOTHING will make up for boring people. The Tour has lots of those.

by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 27, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"boring people" ?

Hey WAIT a minute !!!! Do you mean the fans or the players ? :-D

The 16th at the FBR is really amazing – but the Tour had nothing to do with it. It spawned on its own and the Thunderbirds just started adding stands and adding and adding. The most amazing thing to me is that in that maylay of a hole – they get dead quiet as soon as the player puts his ball in the ground. Not an easy thing to do when you’re dealing with 30,000 drunks.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on Aug 28, 2008 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good stuff!

I just listened to your 19th hole golf show…I’m not much of a “podcast” person so this was a new experience – it was really fun to listen to ! Interesting comments on Vijay Singh – the “anti-hero” (good analogy) – I laughed when you called him a “very bad putter”. But you’re sort of right about him – there’s reasons to like him, but there are just other guys I like better. He moved up my list with a few of his commercial appearances – they were pretty funny. And I think I’m finally over him dissing Annika at Colonial. :)

The Fed Ex Cup – I wish I cared more, but I just have never gotten into it…for the fans, though, I would have to think this volitility that you’re talking about might actually make it more interesting – I mean, if there isn’t a chance to move up and win, what would be the point of us watching? It would be terrific if Kevin Sutherland won!! But maybe the point of the four week stretch is that for a guy like Kevin, he’s going to have to go all cylinders again if he wants to have a chance…that’s what playoffs are all about, right? But I agree- maybe the whole “playoff” format needs to be revisited.

The US Am – great points about Danny Lee – his interview transcript was a good read – we’ll see if college or professional golf is in his near future. 13 birdies was terrific!! And I’m with you – I really like Match Play.

The more I hear about the Ryder Cup, the more I wonder who the US picks are going to be – I’ll look forward to hearing your views next week. The Europeans have a good squad.

Also liked your insights on a 54 hole tournament – would have loved to see Alfredsson win, but she’s been having a good year, so I’m happy.

Thanks again for all of your info!

by red tees on Aug 29, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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