"Why would they go, 'I want to play that game!'?"
Steve Flesch said this in an interview with golf.com's Cameron Morfit in reference to the impact that the setup at Oakland Hills could have on viewership and growing the game.
Here's the whole quote:
"If we're worried about attracting people to come play, if they see how miserable we are out there, why would they go, 'I want to play that game!'? It's fun to watch guys make birdies. They smile. The PGA is committed to growing the game; is this how they want golf portrayed?
"The thing that bums me out is I don't know how many of our top 15, 20 guys got chased out of here this weekend. Do you think that's the leaderboard the PGA of America wants up there when they're fighting the Olympics? How are ratings going to be this weekend? People are going to look at Charlie Wi, myself — I'm not saying anybody doesn't deserve to be up there, but people are going to turn around and go, 'Well I've never heard of any of these guys, let's see what's going on with the Olympics.' The PGA has got to be careful. They're getting what they're asking for, is what I'm saying."
The question, then, is whether or not golf viewership and participation are impacted all that much by professional golf tournaments.
Do people pick up golf because they see someone like Phil Mickelson pull of a fantastic escape shot at Firestone - a better setup this year in relationship to par? Or, do they play golf because their buddies, or bosses, do?
Flesch says fans like to see birdies, but a poll from last year indicated that approximately 56% of surveyed fans love watching professionals get beat up on tough courses. It can't be both ways, then, so which is it? Do fans like birdies and will that keep them coming back to watch the game?
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FANS like seeing birdies - ok
FANS are the people who like the game and probably already play. Of course we fans like seeing birdies – because most of us don’t make very many of them. A lot of people tried golf because of Tiger Woods, and probably Phil Mickelson to an extent, but a lot of them gave it up when they found that it’s (a) not as easy as Tiger makes it look, and (b) it ain’t the cheapest game on the block.
Last time I looked – a golf course never kicked anyone out. Inability to play the course got those guys out of the tournament. Ask Andres Romero – he only put up the round of the tournament when the Oakland Hills was dryer than it had been all week. Harrington put up two 66’s when the rough was wet and extremely tough to escape.
Here’s something for Steve Flesch to chew on – a lot of people already have the opinion that golf isn’t a sport, and that it is played by spoiled, whiny country club kids. Statements like that only back up those opinions. In their eyes, you are a big baby and a good reason not to try the game.
A friend of mine was IN the PGA – he said it was THE hardest course he had ever played in 20 years as a PGA Professional. (not a Tour player) – but he also said that it was fair. A few of the holes seemed a bit excessive in their setup, but overall, it was a good test of golf. If he had been able to hit his ball in the fairways, he had no doubt he could have made the cut. (he made no worse than bogey on any hole)
Sure – people like good scoring – but good scoring doesn’t always mean tee shot into a mile wide fairway followed by a short iron into the green three feet from the hole and an easy putt. Now THAT is boring golf to watch. There is no challenge to the best players to make the impossible escape or make what looks like an impossible putt or chip.
FANS like seeing you do things that we CAN’T do, Stevie boy – so shut up and play – and quit blaming other people for your inability to beat one of the toughest course around.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
can't help myself...
ok – former English teacher habits showing up…”why would they go, ‘I want to play that game!’?”
sigh – the University of Kentucky would be so proud. lol
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
PGA setup
I really did not like the setup at the PGA, but I wanted to refrain from commenting too much on it. (Obviously, didn’t play in it, but as a spectator and architecture nerd.) Oakland Hills was long and the rough was too deep/thick. From an architecture standpoint, rough is not intended to be a guaranteed half-stroke penalty. It is intended to create a situation where it is more difficult to advance the ball, but not automatically make it bogey time.
There is a line to straddle between going too far (Shinnecock) and being too easy (Royal Aberdeen).
Still, I don’t feel that golf participation is most impacted by professionals. There are a slew of reasons why people quit golf – takes too long, costs too much, too hard to learn, for starters – that are bigger causes for concern than course setups.
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 12, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I have never understood why PGA and especially US Open setups insist on taking a golf course to the brink of killing the grass. As you mentioned, at Shinnecock, they did kill several of those greens. It’s no wonder that some of the great courses don’t want majors back on site. It takes forever for the course to recover – and the members pay too much money to play a dead course for months after the tournament. “Hard and fast” doesn’t excuse abusing the course.
The US Open seems to have gotten the rough idea in hand with their graduated cuts. Why the PGA and Oakland Hills didn’t do that is a mystery.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Game Growth
If televised golf is the catalyst, I believe potential golfers will be inspired to pick up a club by Tiger Woods, Lorena Ochoa and hundreds of other international stars, not by the course set up at a major. Most of the women I play with were introduced to the game by a relative or friend.
I like a tough setup
I totally disagree with Flesch.
The usual complaint after a tough setup is that no one wants to see the best players in the world go out there and embarrass themselves. Well, what do they have to be embarrassed about? The course is ridiculously difficult and everyone watching knows that.
What I want to see is, players overcoming that difficulty with strategy, imagination, and a solid game. Who wants to see the best players in the world go out and shred up an easy course? A winning score of -20 is ho-hum to me.
Don’t get me wrong – I like seeing birdies and great shots. But I also like to see a player’s tactical ability. A player has to put together four good rounds to win on a course that difficult. There’s no chance of playing sloppy the first three rounds and then throwing up a miracle 65 on the final day to win by one. That must feel great to the guy who goes out and puts together four solid rounds to finish second.
I suppose Flesch is right in one sense: having a person see how difficult the PGA Championship was and deciding that golf is too difficult to take up in the first place is worse than the same new player picking up the game for a few months because he saw how easy it was by watching Tiger Woods win the Masters by 12 strokes. But only marginally because the net effect is the same – the game is still frustrating to him, he can’t break 100, and he’s stuck on the course for 5 1/2 hours on weekends. And after the honeymoon is over, his clubs get listed on eBay.
There's a fine line
I don’t think anyone would advocate a major that is too easy, like Royal Aberdeen was in 2006. And Oakland Hills was not unplayable or completely unfair by any stretch. But, it was awfully dull to watch during the first two days.
I agree with you that setups should search for strategy, imagination, and good play. At Oakland Hills, though, that setup is not there. The strategy was one-dimensional: hit the ball straight. There was little room for imagination because the shots were all the same. Out of the rough: chop it out. Greenside: flop or chop. A great player was identified, but it could have been done a lot better.
The winning score doesn’t really matter all that much. I loved the Torrey setup and -1 won. But, shotmaking was possible at Torrey.
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 12, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
2006
the ‘06 British Open was on the Hoylake course at Royal Liverpool.
And that was no easy golf course – Tiger Woods played a tactially flawless tournament. What amazed me was that nobody followed Tiger’s game plan. The R&A people have a different philosophy of course setup – especially since the Van de Velde fiasco. They set up a fair course, and if the players can beat it – good for them. Hoylake gave up scores because the weather was about as perfect as you could imagine in the UK.
We disagree on Oakland Hills being dull to watch on Thursday and Friday. There were some amazing shots played around the greens to save pars and even a few birdies. JB Holmes hitting a 600 yard par 5 with driver – 6 iron was superhuman. Like most people, I wasn’t a big fan of the par 3’s – too long for those greens to hold a long iron or fairway wood, and there was no run up areas for the short hitters.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Whoops
I don’t know why I kept typing Aberdeen – I knew I meant Hoylake. My bad!
The R&A’s philosophy is one that I like and agree with wholeheartedly. Still, they pretty much toned down Hoylake. Like you, it’s a mystery to me how the field didn’t take Tiger’s lead. Had they, scoring would’ve been a lot easier. And it was the quickest example I thought of for a relatively easy setup.
There certainly were pockets of scoring at Oakland Hills. But, to me, there is nothing exciting about rough that makes you hack out into the fairway. And I don’t like par 4s that largely all look alike.
back to Hoylake
how do you figure Hoylake was toned down ? flags were moved into some tough positions, but if the winds don’t blow, that’s a pretty tame golf course. What was amazing was 4 days with almost no wind and no rain.
take the weather out of Birkdale and you have a completely different course and tournament.
na’ wind – na’ rain…na’ gawf—that’s how it is with links golf.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Easier cause...
...it really did not pose the same challenges that the other Open rota courses do. The bunkering was avoidable off of the tee without being penalized from the fairway. The greens didn’t have much nuance, so they had to tuck the pins to have any kind of hope. It’s best defenses were OB on the course.
And that’s not a bad thing – just easier.
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 12, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
like I said...
...links courses depend on weather for defense. If they “USGA’d” up that course and the weather came up – guys would be walking back to the tee all day long after watching their balls sail OB. Grass only grows so fast, so they couldn’t grow the rough when it looked like they might have good weather.
Links greens are kept fairly slow because of the wind – remember the problems at this year’s US Open ? They don’t have undulations like Augusta or Oakland Hills, but they are fairly small and the undulations and run offs roll into a number of bunkers. That’s pretty good protection.
Add the weather they usually get – and Hoylake is a completely different beast.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I'm not disagreeing with you...
...about how links courses defend themselves, or their architectural characteristics. Hoylake just happens to be weaker in all of those elements and it makes the course easier to play.
Here’s a BBC preview for the 2006 Open Championship from hackers like you and me. They indicated the course is easy and fairly defenseless.
If you looked at other courses in the rotation, you couldn’t say that. Carnoustie is a bear with or without wind. Birkdale would have been pretty difficult with the extra length, sans wind. St Andrew’s forces players to think strategically without wind. Troon’s bunkering is so vast that it doesn’t need a breeze to bite. Even Royal St George’s has mounds that are daunting.
Hoylake just doesn’t fit in that company.
by Ryan Ballengee on Aug 12, 2008 11:06 PM EDT reply actions
true enough
if you’re ranking the rota (dang – I’m sounding like a democrat speech writer) – Hoylake is the easiest on the list. It is the one that most depends on the weather for its defense – and they had the “perfect non-storm” in ‘06.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"

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