Lorannika and an Over/Under of 15

by Mulligan Stu on May 11, 2008 4:31 PM EDT Comment 16 comments

During the Michelob Ultra broadcast, Andy North said he thinks that Lorena Ochoa and Annika Sorenstam might combine for 15 wins this year. Terry Gannon replied, "I think I'll take the over on the that one."

Me, too.

Lorena and Annika - let's call them Lorannika - have already combined to win eight (Ochoa 5, Sorenstam 3). That's eight of the 11 tournaments this year won by Lorannika:

SBS Open - Annika Sorenstam
Fields Open - Paula Creamer
HSBC Women's Champions - Lorena Ochoa
MasterCard Classic - Louise Friberg
Safeway International - Lorena Ochoa
Kraft Nabisco Championship - Lorena Ochoa
Corona Championship - Lorena Ochoa
Ginn Open - Lorena Ochoa
Stanford International - Annika Sorenstam
SemGroup Championship - Paula Creamer
Michelob Ultra Open - Annika Sorenstam

I doubt that Ochoa is going to regress any over the remainder of the year, and Sorenstam only looks like she'll get stronger.

Ochoa winning nine times and Sorenstam seven certainly seems possible. Heck, 10 and 8 seems within the realm of possibility. Keep in mind, Lorannika are winning full-field tournaments now; they'll be playing quite a few short-field events later in the year, tournaments that further shorten the odds in their favor.

But let's not forget Paula Creamer, a 2-time winner - almost a 3-time winner - herself. Could Ochoenstamer combine for 20 wins among them?

Sounds crazy. Or does it?

Updated to note that the last time two players combined for 15 or more wins was 2002 when Annika (11) and Se Ri Pak (5) did it. It wasn't unusual back in the 1960s for Mickey Wright and Kathy Whitworth to combine for 15 or more, and in 1968 Whitworth and Carol Mann combined for 20 (10 each).

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Hmm.

Ochoenstamer? Wasn't he one of the German rocket scientists that came over with Von Braun after the war?

Seriously, though: it would certainly seem as though the power in the LPGA is being rapidly concentrated. A good rivalry here, though, would likely be good for the game.

by turnover on May 11, 2008 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Only this one concentrated on developing Surlyn.

Could also be a U.N. secretary-general, ala Hammerskjold. Maybe Boutros Boutros-Ochoenstamer.

by Mulligan Stu on May 11, 2008 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

-"What'll you have?"

-"What imports do you have on tap?"

-"We've got Heinekin, St. Pauli Girl, Beck's, and this new one...Ochoenstamer."

by turnover on May 11, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

serve it chilled

I'll take a pint of your finest Ochoenstamer in an iced mug, please...

...and the under on 15 wins. I think Annika has gotten her taste for winning back. Now we have to see how Ochoa reacts to having someone she knows can not only beat her, but beat her consistently.

On the other hand - the one thing the last two weeks have had in common was the weather. Both tournaments were chilly and windy. Maybe she's just too warm blooded to do well in those conditions, unlike Sorenstam.

The biggest reason for taking the under is a feeling that the Koreans are going to get rolling like they did a few years back and start winning a lot of tournaments.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on May 11, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

let's see...

I called for parity and for Creamer and the two Junior Mint Fighting Lees to outdo Sorenstam this season. Not looking so good. Lorena has 1 fewer win than I thought she'd get all year and Annika has 1 more. Their stats put them far and away ahead of even their top competitors, plus they have the intimidation factor on their sides. Tough to take an under in hopes of a Korean revival, especially with Jee Young Lee, Christina Kim, Inbee Park, Na Yeon Choi, and Hee Young Park still very streaky, Mi Hyun Kim and Jeong Jang playing hurt, Hee-Won Han, Seon Hwa Lee, Young Kim, Song-Hee Kim, and Eun-Hee Ji not finishing as well as their stats suggest they ought to, and Se Ri Pak and Angela Park MIA. I'm actually wondering how likely it is we'll see more wins from Taiwan than South Korea this season on the LPGA! Teresa Lu is having a career season and Ya Ni Tseng may well end up being the '08 ROY, plus Candie Kung is putting in a bid for comeback player of the year (well, 2nd to Annika). If we're going on my rooting instincts, I'm holding out for a Japanese comeback, but, man, those stats sure favor that sweet new microbrew, Ochoenstamer....

by The Constructivist on May 12, 2008 6:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"junior mints" ??

now that's funny ! which two of the six Lee's are they ?

Don't forget - the Korean contingent doesn't have to get hot all at once. They were streaky a few years ago when as a country they won almost half of the schedule. I don't remember any of them having more than two wins on the season. That's a lot of very good players who are capable of winning on any given week.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on May 12, 2008 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is it reasonable...

to categorize Christina with the Koreans? The LPGA does not classify her as an "International Player."

I think she self-identifies as an American of Korean descent. So, if you include her as Korean, maybe Dina should be eligible for the European Solheim team because she might self-identify as an Italian-American. I know I'm stretching the point, but it's not exactly different.

by diane on May 12, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah

CK is a California girl all the way - she doesn't get Team Korea points.

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on May 12, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seon Hwa and Jee Young

Credit to Hound Dog for the nickname! And yeah, good point--I'd love to see it happen....

by The Constructivist on May 12, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good point

Yeah, along with Jane Park, Christina is certainly Korean diasporic (wasn't she born in Korea?), Korean-American, and American (depending on how she feels like self-identifying or you feel like categorizing). But classification can get complicated--and sticky. Remember the controversy when she was named to Team Korea in the then-Pinx (now Kyoraku) Cup? It was neat seeing Angela Park on the International Team in the Lexus Cup and I suppose after that controversy that's where we'll be seeing Christina and Jane in the future. That's the only competition I know of in women's golf where American=International.

Those caveats aside, I should have either left Christina off the list or broadened it to include the diaspora in "Korean"....

by The Constructivist on May 12, 2008 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

according to a few sources

Christina was born in San Jose, Calif. Angela Park was born in Brazil, hence she qualifies as an LPGA international player. Jane Park was born in California.

Since golf is such an international sport, choosing country of birth is probably the only reasonable (a.k.a. non-corrupt) way to classify players for international team competition.

(sources: lpga.com, wikipedia.com, seoulsisters.com)

by diane on May 12, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoops again!

http://www.seoulsisters.com/players/ckim/ckimmain.htm

born on the other side of the rim, apparently!

by The Constructivist on May 12, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

heh!

Don't tell the folks at Seoul Sisters.com, who don't hold Xtina's birthplace against her when it comes to rooting for that next SS win!

In the Lexus Cup, it's Team Asia vs. Team International, so in that sense Christina is, indeed, international. Angela, Christina, and Jane may someday soon compete against Team Asia together.

(Now I'm wondering if I'm mistaken on/making up Xtina's Pinx Cup invite, though!)

On birthplace determining all, haven't people changed citizenship to compete in the Olympics before? Why should golf be any different? Why does it necessarily involve corruption to switch citizenships?

Anyway, the bottom line is that everyone of any Asian descent, no matter how far removed, on the LPGA this season will most likely post fewer wins than its 2 or 3 players....

by The Constructivist on May 12, 2008 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

perspective

Yep - I guess it's all in your perspective. From an American viewpoint, CK isn't international even if her fan base is worldwide.

There have been people who have sidestepped Olympic requirments or tests by moving their citizenship because they couldn't make the team in their own country. I don't think that's exactly kosher or in the spirit of the Olympics.

The ones that bug me are the ones who move to the US as kids, train and develop here - then compete against us...then again...it's just sports. :-) (I just wish the Olympics could make Maria Sharapova stop screaming !) :-)

"this ball will fit in that fairway"

by courtgolf on May 12, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it shouldn't but...

The Constructivist wrote: "Why does it necessarily involve corruption to switch citizenships?"

It doesn't. Annika has US citizenship. Where the corruption would come in is if teams could be composed of whoever they could attract based on citizenship. An example would be if the US decided it wanted Lorena to be on their Solheim Cup team, they could offer her a large cash incentive to change her citizenship. In retaliation, the Euros could decide to offer Lorena even more money and Spanish citizenship (she speaks the language), to which the US ups the ante again. Think of the confusion if this scenario played itself out on each of the top twenty golfers in the world.

Right now the best international team competition format is the Women's World Cup of Golf, but it doesn't usually attract the absolute best players in the world. Annika doesn't play for Sweden and Lorena doesn't play for Mexico. But I have an idea...

What if the current Solheim Cup and Lexus Cup ideas were tossed and in their place, four geo-based teams were formed that replaced them. Consider having a North American team (Canada, US, Mexico), a European team (pretty much what currently exists), an Asian team (again, what currently exists), and for lack of a better name, a Southern Hemisphere team that would be made up of Australia/New Zealand, South America, Africa and any other island nations south of the equator. The tournament would consist of two matches, say North America v. Southern Hemi and Euros v. Asia using the Solheim format, then the winner of each would meet for the World Champioship of Women's Golf. The kicker would be to find a way to incent the best in the world to need to compete.

I came up with this on the fly, so it needs work. Maybe it could be a topic of discussion for the off-season?

by diane on May 12, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you've read my mind!

ah, wouldn't it be amazing if team competition in women's golf got so intense that kind of bidding war you imagine would actually happen?

love that idea, though! no need to wait till the off-season--why not write it up as a diary?

last winter, i had a slightly different one of synchronizing the Solheim and Kyoraku Cups and having winners and losers play off in the off-year:

http://mlyhlss.blogspot.com/2007/09/post-solheim-cup-wrap-up.html

(don't miss the links to other possibilities here and at SS.com)

the benefit of mine is that it builds on existing competitions and doesn't involve scrapping any traditions or rivalries, plus it acknowledges where the talent is concentrated in women's golf. the downside is that it continues to exclude the global South (not to mention Chinese and South Asian players). there's enough downtime in the schedule of all the women's tours, though, to restructure/expand the Lexus Cup in the way you describe, although there are fuzzinesses (like would the Australians and New Zealanders be counted as Asians, Pacific Islanders, or Europeans?!) to be worked out....

by The Constructivist on May 13, 2008 3:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs