460cc Drivers May Hinder Swing Speeds
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 22, 2008 3:08 PM EDT
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PrintMike Johnson - part of the Bomb & Gauge team at Golf Digest - suggests that there may be a negative side effect to max dimensions 460cc drivers. And, he mentions that pros are responding by playing smaller drivers.
According to Scott Burnett, senior design engineer for Adams Golf, large-headed drivers built with extreme front-to-back dimensions to increase moment of inertia also can increase drag and decrease clubhead speed. Burnett cited player testing that showed the clubhead speed for a 300cc driver (measuring 3.7 inches from front to back) clocking in at 105 mph, while the clubhead speed for a 460cc driver that measures 4.8 inches from front to back decreases to 101 mph. The reason for the drop? Drag force with the 300cc driver measured slightly more than one pound, while the large-headed driver created close to 3 pounds of drag.
Which brings us back to golf clubs and those who design them. There are ways to create 460cc drivers with low drag. According to Burnett, avoiding the sloping crown design, which he said creates a large amount of drag, is one way. Another method would be to place an aerodynamic step just behind the crown's highest point. That, said Burnett, would prevent the wind stream from detaching from the clubhead, which in turn reduces turbulence and drag.
While companies continue to work on reducing drag, some tour pros are opting to play smaller-than-maximum drivers. In fact, at last week's Tour Championship, 30 percent of the field used drivers measuring less than 460cc.
Very interesting stuff about the movement to make clubs as large as possible and redistribute weight for maximum forgiveness (MOI). It seems as though top tier players are looking for an edge by taking a step backward. I would wonder what kind of impact that these findings may have as we move toward new grooves (not for drivers) that lead to new balls (hit with drivers).
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interesting
At my level, I get to decide whether I want another mile per hour on my swing speed, which I have no business getting close to max anyway, or get a better result from a less-than-perfect ball strike. I’ll keep my 460cc, thank you.
I don't think this applies
to 95% of amateurs. But, it is kind of interesting that there is a breaking point for people with high swing speeds.
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't new
the same kind of aerodynamics information came out a few years back when driver heads jumped up to the 425-460 cc range. A lot of pros stayed with their smaller drivers when they found that their swing speeds actually were being affected by the bigger heads.
since then, however, companies have made more of an effort to improve those drag coefficient numbers – take a look at the Nike drivers and Cleveland Hi-Bore drivers as examples. More streamlined – like an airplane wing.
I like D’s answer :-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Definitely not new
I did like seeing the reaction to bigger != better, though. You don’t hear that much about golf technology. Maybe we’re ushering in an era of returning shotmaking to golf.
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 22, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
wouldn't that be nice ?
You still see some of these guys playing with the less aerodynamic heads – Sergio is one – he works the ball both ways from the tee.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I've been reading...
…Tom Wishon’s book “The Right Sticks” and while I don’t recall him touching on aerodynamic drag, one thing that he did point out is that Tour pros are definitely playing with shorter drivers than we are. 44.5-45 inches, versus the 46 inches that many of us use.
It doesn’t surprise me that they’d also be using smaller heads.
Of course, we’re led to believe that this is the stuff of excellent players, but according to Wishon, pros use shorter drivers because they can’t control longer ones as effectively. If they can’t control a 46 inch driver effectively, how can we hope to?
Same issue with head size. If pros are starting to realize that they can’t maintain clubhead speed with larger driver heads, how can we hope to do any better?
Diane, you make a good point about not having any business getting close to max clubhead speed, but if it’s an issue of aerodynamics, then I’d expect your 70% swing to suffer too. Just because you’re not giving it 100% doesn’t mean that your effort is being efficiently translated into club head speed.
clubhead speed
it’s a lot easier to control a shorter driver going 120+ mph than it is a 46" driver. If those guys miss squaring the clubface by the smallest margin, innocent merchandise tents get bombed on the 72nd hole of the US Open.
the players using the shorter drivers are also the men – look at the LPGA – they had to install a rule to limit the length of drivers, but the extra length improved driving distance stats on the women’s tours.
most of us recreational players don’t get to 100 mph. the extra length is a help, but it also presents the problem you brought up.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I love Wishon's books
Had him on the show before and is a great interview. I could try to get him on again if you all want.
There is a trade off in force for shaft length, but by and large, it appears that shorter is better.
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
that would be cool
(but I was kind of hoping for that Scarlett Johansson “Lost in Translation” interview on the Lorena Ochoa story) :-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
hmmm...
Interesting point, Eagle. I’m betting you and CG and Ryan strike the ball well enough that you can take into consideration whether a couple of mph club head speed is important. At my skill level, large sweet spot equals my second shot is from the fairway, not from behind a tree.
Well...
I don’t know if I say I strike it well enough (working on it), but I’m not hurting for clubhead speed. I’m definitely in the position to be thinking about trying to get some more control with a shorter driver.
I think you have the right attitude, though. Get in the fairway then worry about distance. Of course, once again I find myself on the opposite side of smart strategy ;-)
by Double Eagle on Oct 22, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
not really
If you like hitting the ball as far as you can and are wiling to accept the consequences of the ball landing in less than favorable conditions sometimes, who’s to say you’re wrong? It’s a game and it’s supposed to be fun.
up to a point
that depends on your ability to get out of those less than favorable conditions and still make a good score. I can usually find a way out of the woods, but I’m not usually in a position to save par.
personally, I learned a lot of lessons watching those Duramed girls last week. Swing inside yourself, keep your balance, and pick good places to land the ball.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
I swing around 100mph
I would guess. I can hit the ball pretty far. But, honestly, I hit my 3I hybrid off of a lot of tees. I can almost guarantee that I will put it in the fairway and leave myself a mid iron to the hole. Unless it’s a par 5 that I can reach, I take trouble out of my hands. :)
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 23, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
point
My point was that if Eagle gets a kick out of hitting the ball as far as he can and is willing to live with the consequences, good for him. But I can see that you and I try to play differently than that. Good for us.
welll...
…Eagle’s a thrill seeker :-)
Hey – that’s the way a lot of modern pros play. thanks to the grooves in their wedges, they can spin a ball from just about any kind of rough.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Sometimes I go for thrills
Especially in scrambles :)
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 23, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
You know it!
Seriously, though, it’s like Tin Cup with me sometimes. I would really do well to listen to the logical side of my brain when it comes to matters like this. I’m getting better, though, at putting less premium on distance.
by Double Eagle on Oct 23, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
option
Maybe you could plan ahead for the next time you play your home course. Pick half the driver holes to let it all out and the other half to be less aggressive. If you plan ahead, then you don’t have to feel conflicted about not listening to the logical side on the swing away holes.
**************
Wow, that was a load of psycho-babble b.s. wasn’t it?
It was
but, not as much as you might think. I do that on courses I play often. I know the holes where I intend to hit driver and hybrid. There’s like 3 or 4 holes that I leave vague to see how well I’m playing. If I’m playing really well, I pull driver. If not, I pull hybrid.
by Ryan Ballengee on Oct 23, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Play the course backwards
I always liked Hogan’s idea of playing a course backwards from the green back to the tee. He would figure out where he wanted to hit his shots into the green, then pick his tee shot and club to hit to that spot in the fairway.
Of course, that works best on courses you are familiar with or have a good yardage book in hand.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Not at all
It’s great advice.
I almost exclusively play my home course, so I usually have a thought out plan. But there’s this one hole – number 7 – with a pond that comes into play. It’s not a long hole, maybe 360 yards or so. There’s a pond running up the right that squeezes off the fairway into about a 10 yard chute right in optimal driver territory.
The choice is, hit a mid iron to the safe spot and then have 150-175 yards to the green. Or, hit driver and deal with the 270 yard carry (or go for the ten yard chute and put it purposely in the rough, because of the angle).
If I’ve got my wits about me, I hit the mid iron. When I need a thrill, I go for it. Unfortunately, the prevailing breeze is usually blowing back at the tee. That’s normally the primary factor in the choice. When I try to go for it, I make it probably half the time, not a logical reason try. Though, more recently, when I need the thrill, I’ve been going for the chute and accepting the rough, because the carry isn’t quite as far. I make that a little more often. And I’m at least disciplined enough to not try it when I’m competing or trying to post a score (I play a lot of late-afternoon practice rounds, where I use the course like a driving range – I don’t keep score during those)
I’m slowly getting smarter and more disciplined about course management. All part of the journey to become a pro some day.
by Double Eagle on Oct 23, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
…teaching is the realistically attainable goal and something I’d love to do. But I won’t rule out playing, if I can improve enough. I’m not talking PGA Tour, necessarily. Mini tours, individual events, stuff like that. But playing is much less realistic at this point, given my age (34).
Either way, I’m not going to stop until I’ve seen how far I can go. If you’re interested, I’ve been keeping track of my progress at LifeintheRough.com
by Double Eagle on Oct 23, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool !
Good luck with it – don’t count out the Hooters Tour – lots of wings ! :-)
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
Awesome!
And who knows, I might get to play alongside John Daly at some point!
Ok, maybe that was an unfair jab at Big John. I’m a big fan! ;-)
by Double Eagle on Oct 23, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
a little history
Karsten Solheim was the modern club designer who started using airplane wing aerodynamics when he came up with his early drivers and fairway woods. they were more elongated than the traditional designes.
he also chose laminates instead of solid persimmon because it could be made harder and stronger than a single piece of wood.
"this ball will fit in that fairway"
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